Fishing can be so so cruel........

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

Well, these canal carp sure are proving to be a tricky proposition!

 

Fished again tonight and managed just 3 bream and 1 roach!

 

In a whole weeks fishing we've banked just 3 carp between us which I think is rubbish. We identified between 15 and 20 different fish on just one feeding session (you can't actually fish for them where you feed them as its private and also due to snags). I also went down again yesterday and whilst they were not quite as active as the other time, at least 10 different fish came up for the bread this time including3 or 4 ghosties which I'd not seen before.

 

We've tried halibuts, boillies, bread and corn as hook baits and even went to the old blended bread and sweetcorm in a method feeder but still no joy. Tacked down my hook size from one of these big fancy number 6's to a thin wire number 10 in case they were tackle shy but this hasn't helped either.

 

Theres a bridge nearby so I may lay an ambush there as I'm beginning to think that once it gets dark that they move away from where they spend most of their day and go foraging up and down the main boat channel once the boats finish for the night.

 

Frustrating but still plenty of things to try yet before I resort to hand grenades!

[Kappa]

We've tried halibuts, boillies, bread and corn as hook baits and even went to the old blended bread and sweetcorm in a method feeder but still no joy. Tacked down my hook size from one of these big fancy number 6's to a thin wire number 10 in case they were tackle shy but this hasn't helped either.

 

I've often found that a float will out fish a bolt rig set up for lightly fished for carp. Indeed I'd use a float over a bolt rig whenever I can. Have you tried worms? I usually fish on the far shelf, however I'm starting to think I'd do much better in the deep channel around dusk!

 

Rich

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

Thanks for that Richard.

 

I tried one rod on the float for the past 2 evenings.

 

First evening in the usual spot and took 4 roach (1 which was about a pound which was ok) but no bream and no carp. The method rods (one bread n corn and the other fishmeal and halibut) didnt take a fish between them.

 

Second evening (tonight) I decided to change tactics again and headed for the nearby bridge to set up an ambush. Didn't work, in fact it was damp squib. I even boiled up a load of hemp to entice the roach onto the float rod in the hope of drawing in a few curious carp but was bit late getting there and the light was fading fast and roach don't seem to feed much after dark. I set a method up at each end of the bridge and set the float up about 10 feet in front of me. Took a beam of 3lb 10oz on the float but other than that it was dead.

 

This really has me scratching my head now. Still not out of options yet as I can try a maggot ring or perhaps worm, but I'm still bemused by the fact they will come up and feed on bread in the daytime but feed em bread and corn on the bottom in the eveing/night and they don't seem interested.

 

Someone suggested that maybe they don't feed at night...........frankly I ain't never heard of a carp that won't feed in the hours of darkness.

 

This battle is far from over!!!

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

Popped down to the canal this afternoon with the missus and fed the fish a loaf and a half. Took them a while to get confident but a few came up and gorged themselves including a mirror which must have been pretty close to 20lb.

 

Decided to go and fish tonight as I'd not done so for a couple of nights and hadn't had a carp in a while from there.

 

I used 3 rods (I normally only use 2 but use a third on a float to catch the little uns just to stop me falling asleep).....I set one up with a stringer of alfala grass pellets and one on the hair and chucked to a spot where we saw quite a few carp eating the bread today, albeit in a rather iffy spot snag wise. The second was a feeder set-up and utilised my ever favourite bread n corn mix. The float rod was set up with maggots over hemp.

 

The float rod picked up a couple of hook swallowing 3" perch, one of which died as he really had tried to sh*t the maggots at the same time as eating them! :-( I decided to ditch this approach and go for some nice fat lob worms instead. Took 5 roach on the worm but again they really did suck em down resulting in 3 lost hooks!! I was fishing just a couple of inches over depth but reckon the combo of heavy tackle and greedy fish for worm or maggot was a recipe for disaster. I've fished this same setup with sweetcorn and get lip hooks every time.......guess they just really want to wolf down the worm in a way they don't do with sweetcorn.

 

After about 3 hours I gave up on the new pellets..........2 reasons.........one, if I do get a take where the bait is, the chances of me landing the fish due to the snags is less than 50/50 and I didn't like those odds, and more importantly, I've been firing out small pieces of bread regularly in another swim and besides the tiddlers coming up to attack it, the carp have been sucking it down! Time to set up the 'caster' again......

 

I set it all up and mounted some bread on the hooklength and fired it out.....and followed it up with a pult full of bread bits. Sly old buggers ate all the freebies but left the caster bread alone. Now for fish to be wary of a beachcaster is really unusual!!! In the end though, persistence paid off and I got my take ( the fish tried about 8 times to suck it down before it finally succeeded)....wow, did it take off like a nutter! I had to be rather grudging with how much line I allowed it to take, resulting in a very violent scrap as it headed for the snags! We slogged it out toe to toe, but in the end my tackle was strong enough to make sure it wasnt getting away!

 

On the bank, it weighed in at 11lb and was in perfect condition. A short while later, the net landed another one of 8lb this time but again, one which fought well above its weight. By then it was really time to go home so I reluctantly packed up. I'm now beginning to understand what the fish want and when they want it, so I should be able to land a few more of these canal carp in the coming days.........I'll keep you updated!

Edited July 15, 2007 by Brumagem Phil

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

sorry, but internet connection has been down till around 5 mins ago and I really need to go to bed so a VERY brief update........

 

went for a quick sesh down the canal tonight and popped just the two rods out, one on the surface and one using bread n corn on the bottom, right tight to a moored boat.

 

The surface was dead as a dodo, bar the usual small stuff trying to smash the bait to bits! The method feeder was much more productive with 2 bream, 1 roach, 1 small mirror (around 4 or 5 lb) and a similar sized ghostie!

 

Thats yer lot I'm afraid..........better write up next time I promise!

[medwaygreen]

Hi Phil,

 

On reading your last two posts i was a little concerned over the fact that you stated you had seven fish taken on your third rod set up all of which were very deep hooked resulting in a dead Perch and three hooks left in Roach.

 

I feel that it may have occurred because of various reasons, some being not being able to concentrate on the third rod enough to see the bites early thus allowing the smaller fish to swallow the bait deeply, using heavy tackle with a small hook, therefore not registering the bites quickly enough or maybe fishing in the dark with a float and the eyesight not seeing the delicate bobs and weaves the float may have been making during the deep hooking.

 

Anyway whatever the problem was to fish on through seven deep hooking before changing something or doing something about it was in my opinion very bad fishing practice.

 

We all make mistakes i make them every day of my life, I try not to make seven on the trot.

 

I hope you will not find yourself in the same position again, and are able to work out sooner what to change or do.

 

Richard

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply.

 

I actually let a mate of mine take control of the float rod and he had the 2 perch and the first roach. Unlike me, he's been fishing for decades and was a bit bemused by it. I saw him strike the second perch bite myself and in no way was he slow........the moment the float dipped, bam he was in.

 

I did let the bites develop a bit with the first couple of the roach........the same as I always do with sweetcorn and almost always get super lip hooks, so perhaps that was the problem? I did'nt wait ages, just let the float do its usual few inches of 'walk' then struck as it went underwater.

 

There clearly IS a problem, but I'm not actually sure what it is. Given that the ONLY thing thats changed is the bait, then I guess waiting for a bite to develop with worm is wrong. Trouble is, if I get twitchy and strike nice and early I always end up bringing in a worm with just a bit of it missing.

 

I'd be grateful of any suggestions........

[Janet]

I'd be very interested in any responses too. I've been fishing on the canal today, and had a few deeply hooked perch. If I can see the hook, then I use forceps rather than a disgorger. I think it makes unhooking quicker and safer (please correct me if I'm wrong!) but I still had one perch that unfortunately died. Not immediately - I found it about a hundred yards away about half an hour later, floating on the surface. I'm guessing that it was one that I'd caught and released earlier. There were also two where I felt it more prudent to just cut the line and hope that the barbless hook would cause it no problem rather than delving around and causing damage. I'm not that desperate to retrieve a hook, although I'd much rather it wasn't left in a fish.

 

I was fishing just one rod. I only have one pair of eyes and hands and can only fully concentrate on one at once, and I can honestly say that I barely took my eyes off my float all day. If my bait (I alternated between lobworm and pinkies) was in the water, I was watching! I was aiming to catch perch, and I knew that I had to be responsive. I struck the instant the float moved. Many times I caught nothing but fresh air, but I believe my responses were good most of the time, and I didn't allow bites to develop, having had problems with deeply hooked perch last summer.

 

I caught several roach, and they were all just hooked in the lip. No problem. Not so with the perch. Are they just greedy little beggars?

 

Janet

 

Incidentally, I caught the same perch four times in succession! Easily recognised as it had a distinct healed bite mark on its left side.

[Newt]

That sort of deep hooking is what drove me to circle hooks.

 

I've posted this before but will repeat it. US bluegill and their close relatives are greedy and very difficult to catch without deep hooking a fairly high percentage. Normally not a problem in the States as they are mainly caught for the table anyway. We do have some very long shank, light wire J hooks that are often used but that is to allow fingers to do the unhooking since the mouth is not large enough for most disgorgers (which are very uncommon in this country anyway).

 

Jan enjoys fishing for them but we release almost all our fish so the number of injured fish due to deep hooking was way too high - in the neighborhood of 1 in 5 or something and that is float fishing with a strike at the first indication of a bite. With the switch to circle hooks, that rate has dropped to maybe 1 in 50. We have seen the same success with the smaller channel catfish which also like to instantly swollow a bait. Mostly lip hooks and if they do manage to swollow the hook, most can be removed with just a gentle tug since the hook did not dig in. Due to their shape, they need some surface like the lip to make them dig in.

 

You can buy the Gamakatsu Octopus Circle hooks down to #8 from most US online tackle shops and I have found them down to #12 by looking at specialty fly tying shops.

 

I think we now miss a few more bites by sunfish than before but not that many and the hookset in the lip is worth an occasional missed bite. The hookup rate with the channel cats is actually higher and approaching 100%.

 

 

A similar hook but by Owner

 

[Guest Rabbit]

I'd be very interested in any responses too. I've been fishing on the canal today, and had a few deeply hooked perch. If I can see the hook, then I use forceps rather than a disgorger. I think it makes unhooking quicker and safer (please correct me if I'm wrong!) but I still had one perch that unfortunately died. Not immediately - I found it about a hundred yards away about half an hour later, floating on the surface. I'm guessing that it was one that I'd caught and released earlier. There were also two where I felt it more prudent to just cut the line and hope that the barbless hook would cause it no problem rather than delving around and causing damage. I'm not that desperate to retrieve a hook, although I'd much rather it wasn't left in a fish.

 

I was fishing just one rod. I only have one pair of eyes and hands and can only fully concentrate on one at once, and I can honestly say that I barely took my eyes off my float all day. If my bait (I alternated between lobworm and pinkies) was in the water, I was watching! I was aiming to catch perch, and I knew that I had to be responsive. I struck the instant the float moved. Many times I caught nothing but fresh air, but I believe my responses were good most of the time, and I didn't allow bites to develop, having had problems with deeply hooked perch last summer.

 

I caught several roach, and they were all just hooked in the lip. No problem. Not so with the perch. Are they just greedy little beggars?

 

Janet

 

Incidentally, I caught the same perch four times in succession! Easily recognised as it had a distinct healed bite mark on its left side.

Perch are greedy little beggars and deep hooking is a problem. I would not advocate the use of forceps on any small fish however, can do a lot of damage. Have you got a Slammo disgorger Jan? If not check them out, not cheap a £2.50 ish but well worth the extra, and helps with sleeping at nights too.

If the last 2' of the hooklength are on the bottom of the canal deep hooking can be the result, try bringing the hook up a bit, and experimenting with your shotting should help. Make sure your float is only showing a couple of mm also helps