Fishing can be so so cruel........

[ColinW]

Perch are greedy little beggars and deep hooking is a problem.

 

It's nothing to do with "greed". Cyprinid fish all have throat teeth for crushing their food, so when you strike, the bait will still be quite high up in the fish's throat. Perch don't have these teeth so there is no reason for them not to simply swallow their food immediately. I find it easier to accept that it will happen and use very small whisker barbed or barbless hooks, so that I can get them out very easily even after swallowing. Bury the hook in a caster and a lot of the time it will pull back up before hooking. Perch don't fight particularly hard and you can easily land a two pounder on a size 20 hook. If you find that unacceptable, or want to use bigger baits, the use the circle hooks recommended by Newt. Don't strike when you use them, let the fish swim off and hook itself. It will swallow the hook but it will pull back out of its stomach as it swims, because the inward turned point can't hook up until it hits the fishes mouth.

[Guest Rabbit]

It's nothing to do with "greed". Cyprinid fish all have throat teeth for crushing their food, so when you strike, the bait will still be quite high up in the fish's throat. Perch don't have these teeth so there is no reason for them not to simply swallow their food immediately. I find it easier to accept that it will happen and use very small whisker barbed or barbless hooks, so that I can get them out very easily even after swallowing. Bury the hook in a caster and a lot of the time it will pull back up before hooking. Perch don't fight particularly hard and you can easily land a two pounder on a size 20 hook. If you find that unacceptable, or want to use bigger baits, the use the circle hooks recommended by Newt. Don't strike when you use them, let the fish swim off and hook itself. It will swallow the hook but it will pull back out of its stomach as it swims, because the inward turned point can't hook up until it hits the fishes mouth.

Ok! substitute the word greed (actually not mine originally) for predators, and with that in mind they will attack a bait with gusto, hence the problem with deep hooking. Circle hooks eh? So shotting and sensitive presentation not the answer is it? Tell that to the matchmen, which the last thing they need is a deep hooked fish = lost time with changing hook lengths.

 

BTW Just read the deleted posts by Tigger after I posted this. I was of the same opinion as him. For BP to advertise such reckless behaviour on a Angling site is poor, to gag Tiggers comments is worse.

Edited July 17, 2007 by Rabbit

[Newt]

Circle hooks eh? So shotting and sensitive presentation not the answer is it?

I don't recall anyone saying, or even implying, that circle hooks were THE answer and that others need not apply.

 

I did say that they were a possible solution and they are.

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

BTW Just read the deleted posts by Tigger after I posted this. I was of the same opinion as him. For BP to advertise such reckless behaviour on a Angling site is poor, to gag Tiggers comments is worse.

 

LOL, steady on rabbit, I didn't advertise anything, I simply relayed my experiences in the hope one of the resident experts might offer some advice.

 

Tigger DID NOT offer any advice he just used my misfortune as a means to take a swipe at me. He does so regularly and I don't want him on my blog as a result.........there are many who read this and enjoy it, and I (nor the mods) wish to see him wreck it.

 

I fished again tonight and had 2 more fatalities.

 

Its really beginning to get me down actually. I dumped a couple of methods out and then concentrated on the float fishing. Now I didn't neglect watching the float before, but paid EXTRA attention today. Put a nice fat lobby on the hook to keep the tiny hook stealing perch away! Had 3 or 4 bites, but I was two quick and the worm (well most of it anyway) came back each time. Then I got another bite........float moved just 4 inches before dipping, the result was a ruf no bigger than my finger which had eaten the WHOLE worm and the hook! I could just see the top of the hook, but this fish was so small that I couldnt even get the fat end of the disgorger in its mouth. I snipped the line and chucked it back in. At this point I gave up with the float and set the beach caster up instead.

 

Later in the evening on a re-bait, I went to draw one of the rods in only to find I've a roach on the hook! He's taken the bait into his throat a bit, but he's not deep hooked and the disgorger easily removes the hook first go.........I'm relieved at this point, but 5 minutes later the roach floats to the surface in front of me!

 

To round the evening off the beachcaster bends over and I think I'm into a nice carp.........but yet again I've a bream of about 2.5lb.........never known bream to take off the surface like they do here!!!

 

I feel like like I'm fishing in the Twilight Zone at the moment.

[gozzer]

Hi Phil, first of all if your floats moving 4ins before you strike then your striking much too late.

 

It sounds to me like you're well on the bottom, and your tell tale is too far from the hook.

While perch and ruffe are sods for taking the bait straight back, if you are set up right, the bite should register almost instantly.

Of course I don't know what float your using, but it should be sensitive enough to register the bite, as soon as the tell tale is moved.

 

The old advise of, "if you get bites and keep missing them, move your tell tale away from the bait, if your getting bites and not seeing them, (or deep hooking) move the tell tale closer", still rings as true today as it did when my Dad told me nearly 50 years ago. Even a small adjustment can make a big difference, you just have to get the right balance.

 

John.

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

Thanks for the reply John.........I'm a little confused though. when I was fishing the carp pool and had problems, I was actually missing almost all the bites and the info I was given was that I needed to let the bites develop. I was fishing corn then and would allow the float to kite away and would only strike when it dipped. All the fish were mouth hooked doing this. Are you saying this is wrong?

 

I get the tell tale bit ..... thats a decent sized shot not far from the bait. I wasnt using one of these as I was fishing for carp. I'll set up tomorrow with one and adjust as necessary.

 

I did plumb the depth quite well and the bottom is pretty even. I can tell where the minor imperfections are on the bottom as the bait pauses there for a minute or two before continuing its slow drift so I'm pretty sure I'm not way over depth.

[gozzer]

No Phil, I'm not saying it was wrong before, maybe right for that particular time, that's all.

 

I wouldn't float fish without a tell tale shot, but sometimes it can be a couple of feet from the hook, and at other times a couple of inches. It doesn't nesessary have to be a big shot, it depends on the size of float, bait and how confident the fish are. Like with most things, trial and error finds the right set up, and after a while you get to a point where the error bit isn't quite as often as it was. But after a couple of deep hooked fish, I would certainly be moving a shot a lot closer to the hook.

 

John.

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

Thanks John........when I first set the float up I took a bream and 3 roach and all were hooked in the mouth so assumed my setup was ok. Then I moved to maggot and worms and since then its all gone tits up. I guess the lesson I've learned from this is live type baits require a MUCH more sensitive approach than whats needed for a 'static' bait.

 

cheers again.

[gozzer]

Let us know how you go on. Though carp fishing ain't my thing, it's been interesting to follow you through the last year or so, half wishing that you'll get the 'monster', and half wishing you don't, because the chase will be over then, and maybe the thread.

 

Anyway I'm going to bed and see if I can get some sleep. I'm not usually on here at this time, but came down for a drink and thought I'd look in, glad I did, I didn't expect there would be anyone to talk to, but a nice surprise.

 

Night mate.

 

John.

[Newt]

Usually at least one night owl looking in gozzer.

 

I'm really hoping that not only Phil but many lurkers who have problems but won't post for fear of being blasted can gain knowledge from topics on the forum.