Fish thefts.....again!

[Dick Dastardly]

Sorry to bring this up again but Im suprised no one has commented on Angling Times's entry into the great "Fish thefts for deadbaits" debate!

 

Not been able to buy AT recently so only info Ive got is from sneak previews whilst in Tescos and what Ive read on this thread-

 

http://www.fishingmagic.com/forum/forummes...N/20286/V/9/SP/

 

Seems our Bob isnt alone! although his mate Kieth works for them doesnt he...........................

 

Ah well the links there for anyone who hasnt been battered into submission on this one!

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

Blimey budgie, not this old chestnet again! LOL!

 

I'm actually in the camp that thinks fish thefts actually should be changed to fish relocation! ITs my opinion that fish are moved from lake to lake or removed from river to lake (etc etc) far more than they are removed and killed either for food or for use as dead baits.

 

A couple of examples are mentioned on that forum you linked too, but also I have a permit to fish a pool near me yet all the carp I caught in there last year were not the perfect specimens you'd expect from a permit only pool but were the manky mouthed frankensteins from the 60 acre match lake across the pah! People had clearly been fishing the match lake on the evenings and dropping them in the specimen lake.

 

Lifford (a council pool near me) is another one......it now has 3 30 lb carp in it with another 5 or 6 nudging the 30 mark. These fish clearly didnt fall out of the sky! We all would like clonking great fish in 'our' local free pool and quite often people go a step further and make it happen.

 

IMO, this kind of fish movement happens far more often than fish actually leaving the water and not going back in somewhere.

[Dick Dastardly]

A sound,common sense based reply as Ive come to expect from you Phill.I was more interested in peoples veiws on AT taking up the banner and the possible use of surveillance?

[Bob Bradford]

Sorry to bring this up again but Im suprised no one has commented on Angling Times's entry into the great "Fish thefts for deadbaits" debate!

 

Not been able to buy AT recently so only info Ive got is from sneak previews whilst in Tescos and what Ive read on this thread-

 

http://www.fishingmagic.com/forum/forummes...N/20286/V/9/SP/

 

Seems our Bob isnt alone! although his mate Kieth works for them doesnt he...........................

 

Ah well the links there for anyone who hasnt been battered into submission on this one!

 

Your correct Budgie, I am not alone in not having my head firmly up my own arse, if that is what your are inferring mate

 

People seem to like facts on this forum so here are a few for them to digest;

 

I contacted the Angling times with photo's and information regarding fish thefts in Potter Heigham boat yard almost 2 years ago, Keith put me in touch with one of their journalists called Greg Whitehead, I went out of my way to supply as much info and photographic evidence as I could, AT ran the story within a couple of weeks and I was scathing in my criticism of what I deemed a lame,limp piece of journalism, resulting in a series of nasty E-mails between myself and Greg (whom I have never met).

I contacted an EA official and had extensive dialog with the next to useless individual, basically the EA tried to fob( myself and anyone else that would listen) off with lame (unsupported by fact) excuses that Mink and Otter were the culprits for thousands of fish scales and wholesale loss of roach and skimmer Bream from the wetsheds.

 

Well I can reveal a little of what I know to be fact regarding this;

 

This year ( partly because I have kept a vigilance and regularly visited the wetsheds) there has been no repeat of the carnage that previously occured.... the resident huge population of Mink and Otter the EA insist exists ( they do not!!) must be on a diet

 

There were (I don't know if this is wise on a public forum,but here goes) huge shoals of fish present EVERY TIME I visited over this last winter but no signs whatsoever of the thousands and thousands of fish scales covering the boardwalks I witnessed the winter before.... people can make of this what they wish, but I know what I think.

 

Across the road in the huge tackle shop an angler can purchase frozen unmarked coarse deadbaits, and several other tackle dens in my area sell them too!

 

I have posted one of Greg's replies from the other site, remember , we are not bossom buddies!!! but I wholeheartedly support his words, regards Bob.

 

I have gone to the local tackle shops on a number of occasions to buy packets of frozen coarse fish to use to take pics for the paper and have yet to find any packets that ARE clearly labelled by the supplier!!! Must be my timing's rubbish!

The EA always deny there are any problems within angling if it results in bad publicity for them. FACT!! Hell, they'd even manage to turn Calverton and Leyland into positive PR given half the chance!

And when was the last time anyone from the PAC rang us up off their own backs? No one's rung me that's for sure.

And from speaking to tackle shops up and down the country over the last 18 months they all report a MASSIVE increase in the demand for coarse fish dead baits over the past few years - so there must be a Hell of a lot of predator anglers who haven't sussed out that sea deads are infinitely better than coarse ones!!!!!

Rank bad journalism? Depends upon your perspective I guess.

Edited May 16, 2006 by Bob Bradford

[Dick Dastardly]

Stuborn maybe Bob but not head up arse.Thanks for giving me a bit more info.Has nothing you have read or been told wavered your veiws though?

 

What do you think of this surveillance buisness? Would it prove/disprove anything to you?

 

What do you think of the way AT handled the story? I seem to remember that you didnt blame pike anglers directly.

 

Also which shops were these that were selling the suspicious packets of bait? Ive asked this question several times now of people who have claimed this and none have replied.

 

Ive said it before Bob get us pike anglers (and all other anglers for that matter) on side with some proper facts and hard information and you will have strong allies.It is after all very much in our interest to get this sorted.

 

As I have said before scaremongering or if indeed it is happening neither will do us any favours at all.Regardless of either facts or true or not there will be repercussions for any anglers who use fish baits.The seed has been sown in many peoples minds...especially with those who allready have an axe to grind.

[Bob Bradford]

Nothing I have read or heard has changed my view that coarse fish are being stolen from our natural waterways Budgie.

 

Lathams of Potter Heigham ,Angling Direct in Beccles Suffolk, and (although I have not seen them personally) I know the Norwich Angling Direct shop sold them, they may have changed policy, I have not looked in the freezers for several months , but certainly they were selling unmarked frozen Roach /Skimmers at the time I discovered the huge amount of fish scales in the wetsheds, I am not suggesting these were the same fish but I am stating FACTS.

 

What do I think of the surveillance issue?

 

I think if it prevents would be fish thieves it is a good deterrent, but that is all it is......a deterrent, I support a blanket ban on frozen freshwater deadbaits ...period!!! a good pike angler worthy of the name should have the angling ability to catch his own bait , if he/she cannot ,maybe they should not be fishing for a top line,yet fragile,predator like the Pike.

 

I cannot and will not divulge the knowledge I have been supplied with on how to illegally empty a wetshed of it's fish (for obvious reasons) but I now know what to look for, hence my frequent visits this winter, if I discover anything illegal rest assured it will be dealt with.

 

I happen to think that the fish are worth far more live than dead, but frozen dead fish are easier to sell.

 

I also believe that true Pike anglers know the damage being done to Pike stocks in the Norfolk Broads by this, and how incredibly short sighted some "Pike anglers" are.

 

I know Pike anglers in the know state sea deadbaits are superior to freshwater deadbaits and I bow to their superior knowledge, but the FACT remains ,many thousands of frozen freshwater deadbaits are being sold over the counter of our fishing tackle shops, so the demand IS there.

Edited September 15, 2009 by Elton

[mark barrett]

Nothing I have read or heard has changed my view that coarse fish are being stolen from our natural waterways Budgie.

 

Lathams of Potter Heigham ,Angling Direct in Beccles Suffolk, and (although I have not seen them personally) I know the Norwich Angling Direct shop sold them, they may have changed policy, I have not looked in the freezers for several months , but certainly they were selling unmarked frozen Roach /Skimmers at the time I discovered the huge amount of fish scales in the wetsheds, I am not suggesting these were the same fish but I am stating FACTS.

 

What do I think of the surveillance issue?

 

I think if it prevents would be fish thieves it is a good deterrent, but that is all it is......a deterrent, I support a blanket ban on frozen freshwater deadbaits ...period!!! a good pike angler worthy of the name should have the angling ability to catch his own bait , if he/she cannot ,maybe they should not be fishing for a top line,yet fragile,predator like the Pike.

 

I cannot and will not divulge the knowledge I have been supplied with on how to illegally empty a wetshed of it's fish (for obvious reasons) but I now know what to look for, hence my frequent visits this winter, if I discover anything illegal rest assured it will be dealt with.

 

I happen to think that the fish are worth far more live than dead, but frozen dead fish are easier to sell.

 

I also believe that true Pike anglers know the damage being done to Pike stocks in the Norfolk Broads by this, and how incredibly short sighted some "Pike anglers" are.

 

I know Pike anglers in the know state sea deadbaits are superior to freshwater deadbaits and I bow to their superior knowledge, but the FACT remains ,many thousands of frozen freshwater deadbaits are being sold over the counter of our fishing tackle shops, so the demand IS there.

 

i have to say bob what a complete load of twaddle that post is.

 

"personally i would like a blanket ban on all coarse deads"

 

and do you know what would happen then bob? it would mean the mass transportation of livebaits all over the bloody country. why, well simply because if you ban deadbaits, then those anglers that travel long distances to fish will not be able to freeze their own baits and take them with them, and quite possibly for those doing time after work, wont have the time to catch them at the venue.

furthermore to say they should catch them all at the water is bloody stupid full stop, because quite honest;ly even a decent matchman will struggle to get enough bait for a day off some of the venues around here in the middle of winter. thats not such a problem for a pike angler, but what about the zander anglers bob, is it simply a case of sod them? because that is your inference.

 

but the little gem in your post is that you say that you havent seen any sign of it this year. if so, then why is the story being run with a vengence right now?

 

in short bob your post is a typical matchmans response. pike anglers kill fish, the fish that we want to catch so lets do all we can to undermine them and stop them taking our fish, conveniantly forgetting all the fish that perish in match nets every weekend, or the overstocking of match lakes.

 

you know we all have things that we dislike about each others branch of the sport, whilst eejits like yourself keep using them as a stick to beat each other with then anglings getting nowhere. FAST!

[Dick Dastardly]

Lots of points raised/questions answered there Bob,to make it easier for me please excuse me replying like this!

 

Nothing I have read or heard has changed my view that coarse fish are being stolen from our natural waterways Budgie.

 

Lathams of Potter Heigham ,Angling Direct in Beccles Suffolk, and (although I have not seen them personally) I know the Norwich Angling Direct shop sold them, they may have changed policy, I have not looked in the freezers for several months , but certainly they were selling unmarked frozen Roach /Skimmers at the time I discovered the huge amount of fish scales in the wetsheds, I am not suggesting these were the same fish but I am stating FACTS.

 

Have any of these places been challenged about this,or reported to the EA?

 

What do I think of the surveillance issue?

 

I think if it prevents would be fish thieves it is a good deterrent, but that is all it is......a deterrent,

 

I would more hope it would prove it one way or another Bob.My only worry is that if nothing untoward was seen it still wouldnt prove anything.

 

I support a blanket ban on frozen freshwater deadbaits ...period!!! a good pike angler worthy of the name should have the angling ability to catch his own bait , if he/she cannot ,maybe they should not be fishing for a top line,yet fragile,predator like the Pike.

 

Bit of a Vicky Pollard on this one...er yeagh but no but! Ideally I would like to see this as well,but would it be fair? Also I suppose that it could be argued by some that it would be better to have all such baits comming from controlled sources ie so your local pond isnt raped or diseased fish taken and used?

 

I cannot and will not divulge the knowledge I have been supplied with on how to illegally empty a wetshed of it's fish (for obvious reasons) but I now know what to look for, hence my frequent visits this winter, if I discover anything illegal rest assured it will be dealt with.

 

The fact that you have not seen any other signs could be looked at in many ways ie If it was a theft it was a once off? The publicity scared them off from trying again? The mink/otter/whatever has been killed/moved on? Difficult to draw a conclussion either way.

 

I happen to think that the fish are worth far more live than dead, but frozen dead fish are easier to sell.

 

Cant argue against your logic there Bob a point I had not really considered.

 

I also believe that true Pike anglers know the damage being done to Pike stocks in the Norfolk Broads by this, and how incredibly short sighted some "Pike anglers" are.

 

Same as I (and many other predator anglers) have said.

 

I know Pike anglers in the know state sea deadbaits are superior to freshwater deadbaits and I bow to their superior knowledge,

 

Not strictly true Bob as it varies on a lot of things,however not really the issue here.

 

but the FACT remains ,many thousands of frozen freshwater deadbaits are being sold over the counter of our fishing tackle shops, so the demand IS there.

 

The amount sold is irelevant it is the source that is the issue.But yes the demand for any "pre packed" bait is there due to the numbers of people comming into piking or giving it a go who have become used to this situation in their normal (pint of maggotts or bag of boillies) area of the sport.I would have thought that you would have found the more "exotic" baits such as smelt/lamprey etc were the ones in most demand though.

 

Ive tried to answer your points straight but please allow me to play Devils Advocate just the once-

 

If 8,000 pikers use 100 deadbaits a year (these are purely hypothetical figures) that therefore means that a total of 8,000000 fish are taken/killed for bait (other than the "control" points I raised earlier) what does it matter wether it is the pike angler who takes/kills them himself or the bait snatcher? same amount of fish yet you say you dont have a problem with fish being used as bait?

 

I as I said would always want to get my own baits but must admit that really the only sensible/safe system would be for only bait supplied by a reputable dealer who would have obtained it from an aceptable source and had it "health" checked be allowed.

Edited May 16, 2006 by BUDGIE

[Bob Bradford]

Mark if you require a reasoned response to your post from me, you can start with an apology for your personal and abusive outburst, otherwise I will ignore your input...your choice pal.

[JBee123]

If 8,000 pikers use 100 deadbaits a year (these are purely hypothetical figures) that therefore means that a total of 8,000000 fish are taken/killed for bait (other than the "control" points I raised earlier)

 

Quick mate check your maths and do an edit

 

I think that the majority of Pike anglers wouldnt use anywhere near that amount of baits. not a chance. Not the johnny come once in a while bugger me its far too cold outside to go fishing types, who everyone else would have us believe are the scourge of modern pike fishing.