Fish thefts.....again!

[Bob Bradford]

Lots of points raised/questions answered there Bob,to make it easier for me please excuse me replying like this!

Ive tried to answer your points straight but please allow me to play Devils Advocate just the once-

 

If 8,000 pikers use 100 deadbaits a year (these are purely hypothetical figures) that therefore means that a total of 8,000000 fish are taken/killed for bait (other than the "control" points I raised earlier) what does it matter wether it is the pike angler who takes/kills them himself or the bait snatcher? same amount of fish yet you say you dont have a problem with fish being used as bait?

 

I as I said would always want to get my own baits but must admit that really the only sensible/safe system would be for only bait supplied by a reputable dealer who would have obtained it from an acceptable source and had it "health" checked be allowed.

 

Yes Budgie, I have spoken to the managers of Beccles Angling Direct and Lathams, they both told me the frozen deadbaits came from a legitimate supplier and as far as they were aware were purchased from a fish farm , but in reality had no idea of the original source, they (the managers) had not asked for proof of this.

 

Rather than me keep answering your questions I have one for you and any other Predator angler that wishes to answer;

 

Have the PAC or any other representative ever proposed tighter legislation for deadbaits sold over the counter? and if not why not?

[Dick Dastardly]

Mark you ask why if no "evidence" has been found this year why the story has been run so hard?

 

Come on mate you know as well as I do that AT is the last to know whats going on (or it seems even care about the REAL facts) they just want a story to run.Especially one thats potentially as spicey as this.Dont suppose the press would consider "Angling Unity" as issue selling as Matchmen v Predator hunters!

 

Bit like the Sun writing about how happy a famous celebs relationship was or what a great job an MP was doing! Who wants to read anything wholesome or positive these days! Wont be long till we see tits on page three of the angling press I tell yer!

 

 

Mind you theres plenty of them writting in it all ready!

[Paul_D]

Wont be long till we see tits on page three of the angling press I tell yer!

 

I wont be.....can't even be arsed having a sneak preview at the rag in Tesco's....

[argyll]

Have the PAC or any other representative ever proposed tighter legislation for deadbaits sold over the counter? and if not why not?

 

..and why in heavens name would they want to do that Bob.Surely not on the back of the 'non evidence' that we've seen here, or the AT's attempt to start a crusade that can only damage piking and pikers. The offer of a ten thousand pound bounty which they know nobody is ever going to be in a position to claim is just a miserable attempt to boost circulation.

 

Presumably having weighed up the facts before making the offer, did it not occur to you that in the complete absence of any kind of evidence linking changes in fish stocks (I wont even call them 'disappearances') to piking, deadbaits or phantom rustlers in the night, that AT knew that their ten grand was always going to be safe. It might be easier to prove that Bernard Manning had Pakistani grandparents.

 

Personally I think PAC might be far more productive to campaign against the deathtraps that you call keepnets.

 

I share Mr D's view, AT ain't even worth a free read and I suspect this little campaign of theirs will backfire...hope it does.. The only rag worth reading (and buying) is Southern Angler.

Edited May 16, 2006 by argyll

[Bob Bradford]

Have the PAC or any other representative ever proposed tighter legislation for deadbaits sold over the counter? and if not why not?

 

..and why in heavens name would they want to do that Bob.Surely not on the back of the 'non evidence' that we've seen here, or the AT's attempt to start a crusade that can only damage piking and pikers. The offer of a ten thousand pound bounty which they know nobody is ever going to be in a position to claim is just a miserable attempt to boost circulation.

 

Presumably having weighed up the facts before making the offer, did it not occur to you that in the complete absence of any kind of evidence linking changes in fish stocks (I wont even call them 'disappearances') to piking, deadbaits or phantom rustlers in the night, that AT knew that their ten grand was always going to be safe. It might be easier to prove that Bernard Manning had Pakistani grandparents.

 

Personally I think PAC might be far more productive to campaign against the deathtraps that you call keepnets.

 

I share Mr D's view, AT ain't even worth a free read and I suspect this little campaign of theirs will backfire...hope it does.. The only rag worth reading (and buying) is Southern Angler.

 

First of all I would like to state I am in no way linked to Angling Times and have no vested interest at all.

 

Argyll asked "and why in heavens name would they want to do that Bob.Surely not on the back of the 'non evidence' that we've seen here, or the AT's attempt to start a crusade that can only damage piking and pikers. The offer of a ten thousand pound bounty which they know nobody is ever going to be in a position to claim is just a miserable attempt to boost circulation. " to my question regarding tighter legislation,

 

Well I would have thought it would be in the interests of all Pike/Predator anglers!!! if the practice of selling illegal baits does not exist surely the PAC and the rest would wish to prove it and what better way?

 

P.S. keepnets do not kill fish, bad angling practice does.

[Dick Dastardly]

P.S. keepnets do not kill fish, bad angling practice does.

 

Bob dont you get fed up with having to defend keepnets? I suppose it must get to be a real bore? but then as a lot of rubbish is spoken about keepnets I suppose match anglers have to try and point out the true facts.After all without them their area of the sport would be really affected.Every time some well meaning but incorectly informed guy mentions them it must be a worry that many more others will believe these fallacys? Now that would be terrible,especially if a national angling paper took up some of these peoples veiws and ran it hard? Christ it could lead to the end of match fishing as you know it Bob.I would like to see a blanket ban on keepnets as surely any experienced match angler worth his salt could sort out an alternative way of retaining them.....................Sound familiar?

 

 

 

 

BTW other than the AT lads who are obviously in a position of having to justify the story Ive still not seen anyone independant of your self making these claims.Im not saying there isnt but who/where are they?

 

When last discussed I thought it was agreed that this was pretty much a "localised" problem (if once again there is one) so why has it become a national issue? Surely this just redirects attention away from the problem area thus delaying it being resolved?

[argyll]

Bad angling practice....keepnets. Yep you hit the nail on the head there Bob.

[Bob Bradford]

Bob dont you get fed up with having to defend keepnets? I suppose it must get to be a real bore? but then as a lot of rubbish is spoken about keepnets I suppose match anglers have to try and point out the true facts.After all without them their area of the sport would be really affected.Every time some well meaning but incorectly informed guy mentions them it must be a worry that many more others will believe these fallacys? Now that would be terrible,especially if a national angling paper took up some of these peoples veiws and ran it hard? Christ it could lead to the end of match fishing as you know it Bob.I would like to see a blanket ban on keepnets as surely any experienced match angler worth his salt could sort out an alternative way of retaining them.....................Sound familiar?

BTW other than the AT lads who are obviously in a position of having to justify the story Ive still not seen anyone independant of your self making these claims.Im not saying there isnt but who/where are they?

 

When last discussed I thought it was agreed that this was pretty much a "localised" problem (if once again there is one) so why has it become a national issue? Surely this just redirects attention away from the problem area thus delaying it being resolved?

 

I will supply you with some more names then Budgie;

Dave Dowcra ex England International angler,ex tackle shop owner ,ex distance casting champion,ex sea angler and writer.

 

Barry Burlton, chairman of Stalham angling club (I am not a member) this is the club that paid £3,500 to fish the boat basin 2 winters ago only to discover all the fish had been stolen half way through their winter fixtures,they went from catching one a chuck and several 20/30 lb bags in a match ,to a solitary roach of 4oz winning and everyone else blanking.

 

Tony Gibbons, match organiser for Norwich and district, a sensible ,level headed angler that has fished the Broads man and boy for decades (sorry Tony but you are not as young as you used to be!)

 

As for defending the keepnets issue, no I do not get tired of stating the FACT that keepnets do not kill fish if used correctly, neither do I get tired of the FACT I endorse and promote good angling practice and recommend at every given opportunity the website; wwwallthingspiscatorial...with it's professional angling coaches on stand-by to help those that need it.

 

I would like to emphasis my point about the BAC and legitimate deadbait wholesalers like Neville Fickling....surely it would be in their best interests to demand strong ,enforced legislation and DNA testing of stocks , together with their place of origin, and a proper company label attached to the bait?

 

Neville claims his company are 100% ligit...and I believe him, is it true of the others?

[mark barrett]

I will supply you with some more names then Budgie;

Dave Dowcra ex England International angler,ex tackle shop owner ,ex distance casting champion,ex sea angler and writer.

 

Barry Burlton, chairman of Stalham angling club (I am not a member) this is the club that paid £3,500 to fish the boat basin 2 winters ago only to discover all the fish had been stolen half way through their winter fixtures,they went from catching one a chuck and several 20/30 lb bags in a match ,to a solitary roach of 4oz winning and everyone else blanking.

 

Tony Gibbons, match organiser for Norwich and district, a sensible ,level headed angler that has fished the Broads man and boy for decades (sorry Tony but you are not as young as you used to be!)

 

As for defending the keepnets issue, no I do not get tired of stating the FACT that keepnets do not kill fish if used correctly, neither do I get tired of the FACT I endorse and promote good angling practice and recommend at every given opportunity the website; wwwallthingspiscatorial...with it's professional angling coaches on stand-by to help those that need it.

 

I would like to emphasis my point about the BAC and legitimate deadbait wholesalers like Neville Fickling....surely it would be in their best interests to demand strong ,enforced legislation and DNA testing of stocks , together with their place of origin, and a proper company label attached to the bait?

 

Neville claims his company are 100% ligit...and I believe him, is it true of the others?

 

 

£3,500 to fish a boat basin.

 

well it couldnt possibly be that they paid way over the odds for a boat basin yet, because theres been no significant rainfall the fish havent needed to move into them?

 

course not they must be nicked.

 

every angler that i have spoken to from the area has said that the numbers of fish in the boatyards is down, not cos they were nicked, but because they havent needed to find refuge due to low river levels.

 

and bob, tell me this, if keepnets dont kill fish, why in the past when i used to keep livelies did those kept in a keepnet die within two weeks, those put straight into a bucket live in definastely?

reason. well because those in a net had no slime left on them and they were open to infection.

why do so many small fish keel over after matches?

why do so many places ban nets other than matches, if they do no harm?

 

and you accuse pike anglers of being short sighted. its increasingly evident with each one of your posts that you really dont have a clue as to what you are talking about. are you even an angler?

[gozzer]

I've just had to check the name of the forum, yes it is Anglers Net, not Anti Anglers Net.

 

Why the hell is so much time spent telling each other how bad angling is for the welfare of the fish?

 

You can't kill one to eat.

You shouldn't live bait

You shouldn't use keepnets

You shouldn't match fish

 

It seems that every contentious thread has to resort to "my methods are better than yours", "I treat my fish better than you do" statements.

 

There are many things that we should be fighting against together , pollution, abstraction, the antis, cormorants, the loss of fisheries to other uses etc. And what happens? First chance we get, we start slagging off each others methods, and supplying the antis with even more ammunition.

 

There are many things I don't like, and wouldn't do, within angling today, but so long as it's legal and within the rules of the fishery, then I'll pass.

 

I'm all for constructive discussions on methods, but does it have to turn into some sort of self righteous, playground squabble. We'll be seeing who can pee farthest up the wall next.

 

Rant over.

Edited May 17, 2006 by gozzer