Fish welfare - or just OTT

[Dick Dastardly]

I am simply pig sick of the carping world (mainly populated by anglers who fish for nothing else and in many cases have never fished for anything else) dictating to me (and other anglers) how we fish for our chosen species! Who the hell do they think they are? The days when the carp angler was the "expert" angler who was at the top of the tree are long gone! For many fishing is just Carp fishing! and that's the root of the problem. They know no different and don't even contemplate that anyone would fish for anything else. Fishery owners (well many) just fall in line.

 

Cradles can be very good for carp, in fact un hooking mats can be very good for a lot of species (but I would say that ) BUT when used appropriately and that doesn't mean as standard! BUT again lets keep things real eh and remember what the old idiots like me developed them for and when they need to be used.

 

BobH although you have answered fairly can I just make one comment? why is it ok for a carper to chastise the non carper in fact often belittle the "noddy" non carper but then gets all upset and hissy if anyone dares to dig at them or question their practices? In general its not any carp practices which are being questioned but simply this strange desire for the carp world to push these practices on non carpers/non carp fishing situations. No wonder non carpers get the arse! In fact it gives me (a long long time carper despite being an all rounder) the arse as well!

 

Look after ALL fish but remember Carp aint ALL fish.

 

Back to Matt, Your dead right mate a cradle type mat (John I believe what your on about is more accurately called a "coral") is as much use to a piker as a braided hook link! And although many would say just take one and set it up (but don't bother using it) just to comply to fishery rules/ The Carp Machine I think we should all take the time to try and explain to clubs, fishery owners other anglers why its stupid/not applicable and try to make them remember that there are other fish which need other rules and others do indeed fish for!

[barry luxton]

 

This photo was put up on the net by the guy who was so very proud of capturing it, until it was pointed out that no unhooking mat was used. So TAT part time sea angling rep mr Mitchell hurriedly removed all trace of it once fish welfare was pointed out to him. Now he's busy advocating catch and release of sea bream and bass as according to him and his chums more management is so vital for their survival, wonder if he will be using unhooking mats or cradles in his quest for his nirvana of no one eating fish.

 

[BobH]

I am simply pig sick of the carping world (mainly populated by anglers who fish for nothing else and in many cases have never fished for anything else) dictating to me (and other anglers) how we fish for our chosen species! Who the hell do they think they are? The days when the carp angler was the "expert" angler who was at the top of the tree are long gone! For many fishing is just Carp fishing! and that's the root of the problem. They know no different and don't even contemplate that anyone would fish for anything else. Fishery owners (well many) just fall in line.

 

Cradles can be very good for carp, in fact un hooking mats can be very good for a lot of species (but I would say that ) BUT when used appropriately and that doesn't mean as standard! BUT again lets keep things real eh and remember what the old idiots like me developed them for and when they need to be used.

 

BobH although you have answered fairly can I just make one comment? why is it ok for a carper to chastise the non carper in fact often belittle the "noddy" non carper but then gets all upset and hissy if anyone dares to dig at them or question their practices? In general its not any carp practices which are being questioned but simply this strange desire for the carp world to push these practices on non carpers/non carp fishing situations. No wonder non carpers get the arse! In fact it gives me (a long long time carper despite being an all rounder) the arse as well!

 

Look after ALL fish but remember Carp aint ALL fish.

 

Back to Matt, Your dead right mate a cradle type mat (John I believe what your on about is more accurately called a "coral") is as much use to a piker as a braided hook link! And although many would say just take one and set it up (but don't bother using it) just to comply to fishery rules/ The Carp Machine I think we should all take the time to try and explain to clubs, fishery owners other anglers why its stupid/not applicable and try to make them remember that there are other fish which need other rules and others do indeed fish for!

So Dick,

 

There are plenty of anglers outside the world of Carp Fishing who chastise and belittle other anglers from all section of the sport and use the word " Nodddy " to describe anglers they feel are lesser than themselves.

 

I presume from the original post that the fishery referred too was a Carp Fishery ( know one specified the type) and the Owner of that fishery has taken measures to protect his fish stocks.

 

Surely you can't be arguing against that ?

 

And I certainly don't see where you get the idea the Carp Fishing set the tone for every type of fishing ?

 

I would have thought the Match Fishing section of Angling Trust (the old NFA) has far greater power to influence what is happening in the real angling world and suggest laws that change angling.

 

As far as I can see, Carp Angling only influences those who want to be seduced by it ?

 

And Yes of course there will be some youngster who go straight into Carp Fishing, there big and powerful fish, it easy to see why they would take the path of Carp Fishing, but that's a whole different subject to that of Carp Cradles ?

 

As an all rounder I like nothing more than a days Grayling fishing or a day out Pike fishing, in fact any form of Coarse fishing, including Carp, I have done the same thing for 60 years, but really cannot see the point of tearing into other anglers because you have a bee in your bonnet about the coverage Carp fishing gets and the unseen influence you feel it has ?

 

Tigger

 

If I'm fortunate to land a decent Carp, I bring to the waters edge, net it, gather up the landing net and lift it onto the unhooking mat or Cradle mat that is next to the waters edge, I then wet the sling if I'm going to weigh the fish and whilst the fish is still in the Cradle I place it in the sling, then I get me zeroed my scaled and put the sling handles on the scales, lift the scales over the Carp Cradle and read the weight of the fish, I then puth the fish back in the water to recover and when ready I let it go.

 

Bob

Edited October 30, 2014 by BobH

[Anderoo]

I have two views on this.

 

If I were to fish for big carp, I would probably want to use a cradle-type mat. I haven't caught a 40lb+ carp, but I have had one a little under 38lb, and on a standard mat in the dark it was quite difficult to control. They flap, they slide, they're big creatures, and you want to quickly get the weighing and photos done. Resting it in the net in the margins wasn't an option, it was very shallow water over gravel. I was fishing for bream at the time and wasn't expecting it, but having had that experience a cradle type mat would have made it all so much easier for me.

 

(A friend of mine told me that he used to do a lot of reservoir piking from the bank, and ended up using a child's paddling pool as a kind of cradle mat (before they were invented). Makes a lot of sense on hard, sloping banks.)

 

However, if I'm not fishing for big carp I don't want to be told I have to carry one with me at all times just in case! That's just ridiculous, even if there are '5 named 30s in here' (so what?!).

 

I happen to think that mats are often a good thing. Saying that they should never be used is as daft as saying they should always be used. You can't always just easily unhook fish in the water, and a lot of places don't have plenty of nice soft grass for you to rest your net on. I do like the fact that AN usually sees things differently, but I think we're often guilty of just going right to the other extreme that doesn't make any sense either...

 

For any reasonable and vaguely intelligent angler, it's pretty obvious what's the most appropriate tool for the given situation (if any). The problem is that a lot of anglers, baliffs and owners/clubs are pretty thick and irresponsible, or only interested in one thing, usually carp.

 

The trouble with the carp world is that it is all geared towards fishing in a highly specialised way for very big fish, and all the tackle, tools, approach, costs, and attitude is geared to that. But the reality is that the vast majority of carp anglers fish for/catch medium sized fish, which in reality don't require any of that.

[Worms]

This photo was put up on the net by the guy who was so very proud of capturing it, until it was pointed out that no unhooking mat was used. So TAT part time sea angling rep mr Mitchell hurriedly removed all trace of it once fish welfare was pointed out to him. Now he's busy advocating catch and release of sea bream and bass as according to him and his chums more management is so vital for their survival, wonder if he will be using unhooking mats or cradles in his quest for his nirvana of no one eating fish.

 

Imagine the hysterical laughter...followed by fury, when the Truss bring in recommendations for unhooking mats/cradles, barbless hooks, savlon and sticking plasters for seafish (probably starting off with bass, the "new carp").

 

Landing carp is dead easy and they never flap about for me....Grandad's old trident works a treat

[Tigger]

Thing is Andrew iIf the banks are steep i'd just rest the fish on the normal matt and stradle it so it wouldn't be sliding anywhere. Also surely even a cradle could tip over on a steep bank if a fish flapped about...I mean in a situation like that and even in a cradle type unhooking matt surely you'd still have to virtually stradle the thing to stop it tipping over anyhow so there would be no real advantage ?

Imo it's common sense what dictates what you need and how you need to do it.

[Dick Dastardly]

"Imo it's common sense what dictates what you need and how you need to do it."

 

But its common sense that seems to be lacking and of course as with a lot in this world we have to legislate to allow for those without any sense!

 

If anyone doubts though that any of this new mentality/new practices new morality (both good and bad) comes from carp fishing I realy wonder where they have been for the past 30 years! certainly not on the bank or in the tackle shop!

 

Massive changes some good some bad but Im afraid the position of expert being automaticly accredited to/assumed by someone just because of the species they fish for is an absolute joke simply as why would any field allow this and unqualified people (especially ones with such a narrow experience) to dictate such important things.

 

But again just a sad reminder that today for the majority angling is CARP ANGLING simple as.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Dick Dastardly

[Sportsman]

It is common practice here in France for the fishery to supply appropriate landing nets and mats/cradles to each peg, rather than let the angler use their own. Seems like a good idea, at least to make sure that good equipment is used and to prevent cross infection brought in from other venues.

The problem is that a lot of this equipment is not maintained, or maintained very poorly from one week to the next. I have witnessed fish being laid on filthy mats. encrusted with dirt or dried fish slime, often dry and hot from sitting week after week in the sun. This is deemed satisfactory, although anyone with a functioning brain cell can see that it isn't.

It seems that as long as you can show the latest kit and go through the motions then reality is unimportant.

The only way around it is to vote with you feet and don't fish at venues with stupid rules.

[Dick Dastardly]

Totally agree Dave. In the Pike world its really becoming an issue these days as so many of our vennues are primarily carp orientated and the rules reflect this. We approach fishery owners/managers and try to explain that the whole reason we use braid is for safety but all they seem to be able to relate to is carp! Even one of the best syndicates in the country has brought in a ban on a certain bit of gear simply because the carp anglers cant use it properly! actually has resulted in non carpers losing gear/fish (so defeating the whole "safety" point) BUT even though this can be seen the ban was brought in and has to apply to all because of the carpers! They pay more money and would/have kicked up a fuss if "lesser" non carp anglers were allowed to use a method they weren't!

 

To be honest Im getting pretty sick of the whole scene. You cant fight it so these days I just "ignore it" by going off down the river away from these restrictions and usually other anglers! Yes afraid Ive surrendered. One of the reasons I don't come on here so much Im afraid and this is the better of all the groups/sites etc for this kind of thing.

[Dales]

However, if I'm not fishing for big carp I don't want to be told I have to carry one with me at all times just in case! That's just ridiculous, even if there are '5 named 30s in here' (so what?!).

 

I happen to think that mats are often a good thing. Saying that they should never be used is as daft as saying they should always be used.

 

It would be so nice if you where just allowed to fish appropriately for the species/size fish you want to catch.

 

In principle l do not see a problem with some fishery owners insisting on them especially if they have some rare/big or valuable fish in the water. If some one is targeting them fish well its fair enough to insist that their tackle and kit is up to the job and if that is deemed to be a certain type of mat/cradle or what ever then that is fair enough. If the water is only or mainly stocked with these sort of fish then maybe a blanket rule that everyone has to follow may be ok.

 

However, the thought of having catch all rules is nonsense as Anderoo pointed out even many of those who would class themselves as "Carpers" are often fishing for Carp much smaller then their kit was designed for. If some one dumps his gear down in a swim and announces he is going to target the biggest fish in the lake, then maybe just maybe there is an argument for him needing certain "Carp welfare gear".

 

On the same water Insisting that some one targeting the Roach or Tench should have the same gear as the Carpers is just a joke but some waters insist on certain sized hooks, hook lengths, main line, net size etc with no consideration about any other form of fishing other then Carp fishing.

 

When you pack the car you should be taking what is the right kit for the style of fishing you want to do and the species/size of fish you plan to catch, not for what you might catch. Most of the time these rules are geared to Carp fishing but lets be honest you can say the same about Pikers. Discuss using methods for Perch & Zander and .............................................

 

So if your fishing consists of fishing for massive lumps, then maybe a cradle is for you but for the majority of anglers in the majority of situations its not needed.

 

So for most places it should be left to the individual angler to decide, but hey ho if you are already being forced to have a 50" net, have an unhooking mat, minimum and maximum sized hook and Barbed or Barbless dependent on fishery wishes, 15lb breaking strain main line, being forced to dump your weights, bait bans, hook length bans, leader rules etc does one more rule that you need a cradle going to make that much difference?

 

Plus once everyone has a cradle, then is your cradle big enough? Once the biggest fish is measured the new rule will be they must be over a certain size. I remember when having an unhooking mat was good enough for most places, then many wanted the bean bag style ones.