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Fish welfare - or just OTT


Mat Hillman

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All,

 

Texas Carp fishery provides excellent bank fishing opprotunities.

 

Texas-Carp-Fishing-300x322.jpg

 

I am, by choice, a carp fisherman. I too have caught monstrous carp. Usually measured rather than weighed at water's edge. My experience in the UK is that "carp fishing" sets the moral standard for all species. As well it should - based on the number of anglers and the amounts spent by carp anglers. Carp ponds do not proliferate in the UK because they are not being used. They are a product of supply and demand.

 

Having said that - there has to be more than one way to "skin a cat". I can safely carp fish with a 5 gal bucket - 2 fish hooks - and a can of corn. I am as likely to catch a 40 as I am to catch a 4. One of the reasons carp are so popular is that, in fact, very little angler participation is required to catch carp. This was my experience elsewhere in the world as well as in the UK. Euro carp fishing is a ritual that include long sessions and lots of "toys". Nothing wrong with that. The problem is the "toys" shouldn't be mandatory in the name of the FISH. We concede fish safety when we stab them with a hook and exhaust them in bankside majestic sacrament. They are just fish.

 

Phone

Edited by Phone
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I think a lot of the problems stem from the desire to weigh and photograph everything that is caught.

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Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.

 

 

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity

 

 

 

http://www.safetypublishing.co.uk/
http://www.safetypublishing.ie/

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I understand and to an extent agree that any angler fishing for any fish should be prepared to deal correctly with anything he catches. BUT come on we need a bit of common sense and again this is my issue. For example if Im not fishing for big carp but the water holds big carp then yes I should go equipped to deal with one if I do land it. Kind of makes sense but is it practical? In some situations although possible it would be highly improbable! So if we accept that (?) could we not also accept that the one in a thousand carp that's landed by a (for example) roach angler who has not got the gear (but is quite capable if correctly informed) of "improvising" is hardly going to be that much of an issue? Surely a 40 caught the once and squeezed into a match pan net to land, laid on a wet jacket/net on soft ground and treated with respect as the size 16 hook is removed is statisticly less likely to be damaged than if/when its caught several times on OTT rods, big hooks with big leads dangling an inch or so from the mouth,dragged in, net in an appropriate net,then transferred to an appropriate cradle then the hook yanked out (but loads of Klinic sloshed on) held at extreme arms length for photos then put in a sling to be weighed then taken back to water to be released?

 

Ok maybe a bit much! but surely my real point is clear in that the very rare "accidental" capture by the guy without the specialised gear aint going to do the harm that regular captures (despite the more appropriate gear) will.

 

And back to my main issue. Are these people serious when they then retort to the above argument and say that this roach angler should have a cradle and use it for his roach? Extreme example admittedly but again Im sure you see what Im trying to say.

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And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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I think its all going over the top, and my view is that everyone is trying to outdo each other on the fish-welfare stakes.

 

I was recently chastised by a bailiff for having the wrong kind of unhooking mat when fishing for bream on one of the Farnham waters "cos there are 5 named 30's in here, mate" - I was actually using 2 normal ones.

 

He then told me that a new rule was coming in that everyone in the club needed large bean-bag type mats or cradle to protect the carp. I politely pointed out that not everyone fished for carp and joked that I was really unlikely to land a very large carp on my bream gear - he told me in that case I shouldn't be fishing there. I also suggested that it was also ridiculous to cart around a bean bag for river fishermen who like to rove - he suggested I was being irresponsible! The rest of the conversation didn't go well and rather spoiled a nice day.

 

Like Tigga, I unhook fish in the net in the margins if I can, and only hoik them onto dry land if I need to or if its a particularly special fish for a really quick photo. I agree that fish welfare is important, and now we have to suffer hard-paved swims, its only right that some form of protection is needed for the fish. But long damp grass is just as good if not better because it won't remove as much slime as a flat surface. Its right that there should be guidance on this from clubs and syndicates and most anglers make their own choice as to the best protection for their style of fishing - that's the way I believe it should be left on general waters - if its a carp syndicate - then they can specify hot-tubs, if that's whats best for old 'p*ss wings'.

 

I do agree that some of the carp boys can take an age to photo the fish, wiping them down with towels to clean them off to achieve photographic perfection, and maximum bragging rights - and there ought to be guidance on that as well!

Come over to stockbridge the fat bailiff wont give you hassle ,there was talk of bailiffs doing the pike course every two years ,pretty pointless in stockbridges bailiffs as far as we know there are none

Some get carried away though i had a chuckle at one angler ,his unhooking mat filled his swim i have seen smaller double beds ,those 3 inch perch he was catching could live their entire lives in a puddle on it and not realise

Didnt ask but probably came over from lodge pond after finding out it was closed that day

Edited by chesters1
  • Like 1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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A fishery near me is about to change it's rules an insist that all anglers uses Crib/Cradle style unhooking stations rather than a standard mat. Seems a bit OTT to me, I've never had any problems using a mat, and in fact think a mat is a better option for pike as you can straddle them to control them while unhooking, in a cradle it'd be free to thrash about

 

Wondered what you guys thought, is this getting a bit OTT? those things aren't cheap, and I'm not convinced that they will actually improve fish welfare.

 

Or is this something we are going to see more of ?

 

Mat

 

I still don't get it ?

 

Why are so many of the posters getting on their bikes about what might or might not happen if some waters bring in a " You Must Have A Carp Cradle " if you fish a certain water, it's not happened and as far as I know it has not been suggested by the Angling Trust or Environmental Agency ?

 

It's about some club waters and commercial Carp Fisheries.

 

If you want to fish for other species you have to abide by the rules or risk loosing your ticket or being kicked off a water, there have always been rules, break them and you risk the consequences.

 

There have always been daft rules, one rod only, multiple rod licences ( sorry River Board Licences ), and it's always been like that !!

 

It use a Cradle on Carp Waters because I believe it's better for the carp I catch, I don't use a Cradle for the Chub, Barbel, Perch, Roach, Dace or any other species, because I don't believe it's needed and unhooking mats are perfectly adequate, if they wanted to proposed to changed the law, I would appose it.

 

As far as I can see there is know one at the moment suggesting that Cradles become a legal requirement ?

 

Bob

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I still don't get it ?

 

Why are so many of the posters getting on their bikes about what might or might not happen if some waters bring in a " You Must Have A Carp Cradle " if you fish a certain water, it's not happened and as far as I know it has not been suggested by the Angling Trust or Environmental Agency ?

 

It's about some club waters and commercial Carp Fisheries.

 

If you want to fish for other species you have to abide by the rules or risk loosing your ticket or being kicked off a water, there have always been rules, break them and you risk the consequences.

 

There have always been daft rules, one rod only, multiple rod licences ( sorry River Board Licences ), and it's always been like that !!

 

It use a Cradle on Carp Waters because I believe it's better for the carp I catch, I don't use a Cradle for the Chub, Barbel, Perch, Roach, Dace or any other species, because I don't believe it's needed and unhooking mats are perfectly adequate, if they wanted to proposed to changed the law, I would appose it.

 

As far as I can see there is know one at the moment suggesting that Cradles become a legal requirement ?

 

Bob

Unfortunately Bob, this is precisely how restrictions become applied to angling. One minute it's a private pool thing, then it spreads to clubs and, before you know it "specialist" groups will be all over it and the AT will drop it into all angling because it's in the best interests of the fish....It's why we have compulsory C+R now.

 

And just look at Facebook and some angling fora. If an angler dares to show a photo of a fish that isn't dripping with calomine lotion with a thermometer in it's mouth and securely ensconced on a wet plastic mat with two nurses and a crash team at the ready, the angler's hauled over the coals.

 

And where does it end? Once the AT get their teeth into sea angling restrictions, which they are trying now, it'll be mats and cradles for conger and shark and cod and....you get my drift?

  • Like 1

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

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I still don't get it ?

 

Why are so many of the posters getting on their bikes about what might or might not happen if some waters bring in a " You Must Have A Carp Cradle " if you fish a certain water, it's not happened and as far as I know it has not been suggested by the Angling Trust or Environmental Agency ?

 

It's about some club waters and commercial Carp Fisheries.

 

If you want to fish for other species you have to abide by the rules or risk loosing your ticket or being kicked off a water, there have always been rules, break them and you risk the consequences.

 

There have always been daft rules, one rod only, multiple rod licences ( sorry River Board Licences ), and it's always been like that !!

 

It use a Cradle on Carp Waters because I believe it's better for the carp I catch, I don't use a Cradle for the Chub, Barbel, Perch, Roach, Dace or any other species, because I don't believe it's needed and unhooking mats are perfectly adequate, if they wanted to proposed to changed the law, I would appose it.

 

As far as I can see there is know one at the moment suggesting that Cradles become a legal requirement ?

 

Bob

Err i am confused to what a carp water is ,is it a water containing only carp?

If i fish for gudgeon do i need a unhooking mat the size of an airbed incase i hook a carp on a size 22 to .5 lb hooklenght?

Perhaps our carp freinds are not talking about carp welfare but hoping non carp anglers vote with their feet having to buy something purely because they may hook a carp and let the carp fishers have nice quiet lakes without naughty pole anglers catching more carp than they do (wink)

Could it be the mats are more comfy than bedchairs so the carp anglers can chillax better after a night of stella and warm kebabs

Edited by chesters1
  • Like 1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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Unfortunately Bob, this is precisely how restrictions become applied to angling. One minute it's a private pool thing, then it spreads to clubs and, before you know it "specialist" groups will be all over it and the AT will drop it into all angling because it's in the best interests of the fish....It's why we have compulsory C+R now.

 

And just look at Facebook and some angling fora. If an angler dares to show a photo of a fish that isn't dripping with calomine lotion with a thermometer in it's mouth and securely ensconced on a wet plastic mat with two nurses and a crash team at the ready, the angler's hauled over the coals.

 

And where does it end? Once the AT get their teeth into sea angling restrictions, which they are trying now, it'll be mats and cradles for conger and shark and cod and....you get my drift?

AT? AT? AT? OH that rubbish you buy ragworm in

  • Like 1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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Share on other sites

I still don't get it ?

 

Why are so many of the posters getting on their bikes about what might or might not happen if some waters bring in a " You Must Have A Carp Cradle " if you fish a certain water, it's not happened and as far as I know it has not been suggested by the Angling Trust or Environmental Agency ?

 

It's about some club waters and commercial Carp Fisheries.

 

If you want to fish for other species you have to abide by the rules or risk loosing your ticket or being kicked off a water, there have always been rules, break them and you risk the consequences.

 

There have always been daft rules, one rod only, multiple rod licences ( sorry River Board Licences ), and it's always been like that !!

 

It use a Cradle on Carp Waters because I believe it's better for the carp I catch, I don't use a Cradle for the Chub, Barbel, Perch, Roach, Dace or any other species, because I don't believe it's needed and unhooking mats are perfectly adequate, if they wanted to proposed to changed the law, I would appose it.

 

As far as I can see there is know one at the moment suggesting that Cradles become a legal requirement ?

 

Bob

Why do you believe this? How did you acquire this belief?

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

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I happen to think that mats are often a good thing. Saying that they should never be used is as daft as saying they should always be used. You can't always just easily unhook fish in the water, and a lot of places don't have plenty of nice soft grass for you to rest your net on. I do like the fact that AN usually sees things differently, but I think we're often guilty of just going right to the other extreme that doesn't make any sense either...

No ban them I say. There bad for fish welfare and angling.

 

You may think thats extreme and it maybe is, but they are bad.

 

I've been fishing maybe 40 years, for the first 20 I didn't have one and like a lot of anglers probably didn't even know what one was. Now I have a few and I even take them and use them from time to time. Mostly when i go to places that insist on them, but sometimes for speed and to make it comfy for me. Not really because I think they are good for the fish.

 

Ok so I do a lot of fishing stood in the middle of a river and it would be a ball ache dragging them all back to the bank and out. I know most anglers don't fish like that and maybe thats why I land fish like I do, but I do believe it is much better for the fish to unhooked them in the net, not be handled and never taken out of the water. We do it because it is easier for us, not because it is better for the fish.

 

I never had a fish jump out of the landing net as they have much taller side than even a cradle. They are perfectly supported in the water. Will get far less burns from hot dry hands or suffer from high temperatures. Loss less slime from being handle and move from one thing to another and its fast. Way better all round on the fish.

 

If I ever get a 40lb carp in a shallow peg, I will just have to get my feet wet. Which I probably would have landing it anyway.

 

And I agree with Dave that we weigh and photo way to many of the fish we catch, but I blame unhooking mats for that as well. Or was it carp head/speci head trophy shooters it all seems to have snowballed around the same time.

 

Slip the hook and send them back.

  • Like 3

 

A tiger does not lose sleep over the opinion of sheep

 

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