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Israel - some facts


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Firstly - Brumegem Phil - the answer to that question is the same that happened in Israel - they asked the people first. Putting that question on it's head, If they fired missiles (more than one) on a daily basis, what would YOU do??

 

Secondly: Chesters on what basis do you state that Israel has little (if any!) claim to the land they occupy.

The U.N. gave soverignty to that land to the jews in 1949. Don't argue with me, argue with them!!

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fishing is nature's medical prescription

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Secondly: Chesters on what basis do you state that Israel has little (if any!) claim to the land they occupy.

The U.N. gave soverignty to that land to the jews in 1949. Don't argue with me, argue with them!!

Except ... Israel occupies more land than it was given.

 

Nobody would deny them the right to defend their people and territory, but building settlements outside Israel was an act of either monumental stupidity or monumental arrogance.

 

It guaranteed decades of conflict.

Bleeding heart liberal pinko, with bacon on top.

 

 

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Firstly - Brumegem Phil - the answer to that question is the same that happened in Israel - they asked the people first. Putting that question on it's head, If they fired missiles (more than one) on a daily basis, what would YOU do??

 

Secondly: Chesters on what basis do you state that Israel has little (if any!) claim to the land they occupy.

The U.N. gave soverignty to that land to the jews in 1949. Don't argue with me, argue with them!!

 

i know who was to blame :rolleyes:

all the "facts" stating the jewish interest strangely belong on jewish religeous texts and some parchments ,all by unknown authors and of indeterminate age, anything late roman would already be biased seeing as they worshipped christ ,theres no more proof in that book than in any other religeous tome ,theres more proof "scientifically" alien life exists than god does :rolleyes:

once the existance of "god" is prooved beyond doupt scientifically worldwide only then can books stating his wishes can be believed as truth .

but ofcourse if god exists why doesent he just verify it himself :rolleyes:

it doesent matter all this hair splitting if wales was grabbed etc the uk would react and i expect the welsh themselves would fight the dirtiest. :wallbash:

if you agree the uk would resist then countries effected by isreal being imposed on them should be treated the same.

if wales is too big i suggest you wouldnt walk down your garden to shake hands with a group of pikies grabbing half of it because their grandfather kipped there one night 90 years ago when it was a field,i bet your phone would be red hot :D

Edited by chesters1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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Guest Brumagem Phil
Firstly - Brumegem Phil - the answer to that question is the same that happened in Israel - they asked the people first. Putting that question on it's head, If they fired missiles (more than one) on a daily basis, what would YOU do??

 

Secondly: Chesters on what basis do you state that Israel has little (if any!) claim to the land they occupy.

The U.N. gave soverignty to that land to the jews in 1949. Don't argue with me, argue with them!!

 

Why do you actually find it SO hard to just say you'd level the block of flats? Is it because you inwardly acknowledge how wrong it would be to do so?

 

You want ME to answer the question? NO I would not under any circumstances demolish a block of flats full of civilians. I'd rather let the bad guys get away than have innocent blood knowingly on my hands.

 

However.........having special forces, intelligence sources and some very clever weaponry I dont think I (or Israel) would need to demolish the said block of flats.

 

Funny really, you bleat on about the barrage of rockets indiscriminately killing Israelis yet with their so called precision weapons, Israel has killed approximately 10 times more civilians than hezbollah has. What we do know (and Israel actually tout this as policy) is that they revel in collective and brutal punishment of anyone they consider to be those who cross them.

 

I'm a little ashamed one of my own countrymen finds such a philosophy acceptable.

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Why do you actually find it SO hard to just say you'd level the block of flats? Is it because you inwardly acknowledge how wrong it would be to do so?

 

You want ME to answer the question? NO I would not under any circumstances demolish a block of flats full of civilians. I'd rather let the bad guys get away than have innocent blood knowingly on my hands.

 

However.........having special forces, intelligence sources and some very clever weaponry I dont think I (or Israel) would need to demolish the said block of flats.

 

Funny really, you bleat on about the barrage of rockets indiscriminately killing Israelis yet with their so called precision weapons, Israel has killed approximately 10 times more civilians than hezbollah has. What we do know (and Israel actually tout this as policy) is that they revel in collective and brutal punishment of anyone they consider to be those who cross them.

 

I'm a little ashamed one of my own countrymen finds such a philosophy acceptable.

 

 

I think you're posts show anti semitic views. :)

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I think you're posts show anti semitic views. :)

 

if you critisise anyone or anything your offereing a view ,had he been pro isreal he would be demonstrated an anti "moslem" view :rolleyes::rolleyes:

being slated as anti anything in a response is a sign of no defence or argument .

how many times has the word zenophobic been used to put down arguments against foreigners or foreign ways ,they'r just words chucked in because the objector cannot reason or show an argument showing the other person is wrong , "my dads bigger than yours" updated :rolleyes:

its not anti semetic its anti israely ,no one has mentioned the jewish faith as far as i can see just the israely (as a country) side of things :P

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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if you critisise anyone or anything your offereing a view ,had he been pro isreal he would be demonstrated an anti "moslem" view :rolleyes::rolleyes:

being slated as anti anything in a response is a sign of no defence or argument .

how many times has the word zenophobic been used to put down arguments against foreigners or foreign ways ,they'r just words chucked in because the objector cannot reason or show an argument showing the other person is wrong , "my dads bigger than yours" updated :rolleyes:

its not anti semetic its anti israely ,no one has mentioned the jewish faith as far as i can see just the israely (as a country) side of things :P

 

I think his posts show anti' Israeli views. :)

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The average American is as qualified to give a view on the Arab-Israeli conflct as they were on the IRA situation, amazing what clarity a few thousand miles bring you. The Israelis are as big a bunch of shites as you could wish to meet, I spent most of 2003 in Israel and found it home to the most evil narrow minded pricks I have yet to meet.

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There have been several posts asking that I contribute my own, personal feelings on this topic. I am well aware that my world view will not be the least bit popular with quite a few of the regular members here and had held off commenting after the initial posting.

 

I just received an email that I liked and that pretty well sums up my feelings. I doubt it will prove too popular and feel free to beat up on me for being such a (insert your own, favourite pejorative term here).

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 

A difficult lesson

 

When I was in the Navy, I once witnessed a bar fight in downtown Olongapo Philippines) that still haunts my dreams. The fight was between a big oafish bar bully and a rather soft-spoken, medium sized Latino sailor from my ship.

 

All evening the bully had been trying to pick a fight with one of us and had finally set his sights on this diminutive shipmate of mine... figuring him for a safe target. When my friend refused to be goaded into a fight the moron sucker punched him from behind on the side of the head so hard that blood instantly started to pour from this poor man's mutilated ear.

 

Everyone present was horrified and was prepared to absolutely murder this guy, but my shipmate quickly turned on him and began to single-handedly back him towards a corner with a series of stinging jabs and upper cuts that gave more than a hint to a youth spent boxing in a small gym in the Bronx.

 

Each punch opened a cut on the bully's startled face and by the time he had been backed completely into the corner he was blubbering for someone to stop the fight. He invoked his split lips and chipped teeth as reasons to stop the fight. He begged us to stop the fight because he could barely see through the river of blood that was pouring out of his split and swollen brows.

 

Nobody moved. Not one person.

 

The only sound in the bar was the sickening staccato sound of this sailor's lightning fast fists making contact with new areas of the guy's head. The only sound I have heard since that was remotely similar was from the first Rocky film when Sylvester Stallone was punching sides of beef in the meat locker.

 

Finally the bully's pleading turned to screams.... a high, almost womanly shriek. And still the punches continued relentlessly.

 

Several people in the bar took a few tentative steps as though they wanted to try to break it up at that point, but hands reached out from the crowd and held them tight. I'm not ashamed to say that mine were two of the hands that held someone back.

 

You see, in between each blow the sailor had begun chanting a soft cadence: "Say [punch] you [punch] give [punch] up [punch]... say [punch] you [punch] were [punch] wrong [punch]".

 

He had been repeating it to the bully almost from the start but we only became aware of it when the typical barroom cheers had died down and we began to be sickened by the sight and sound of the carnage.

 

This coward stood there shrieking in the corner of the bar trying futilely to block the carefully timed punches that were cutting his head to tatters right down to the skull in places. But he refused to say that he gave up... or that he was wrong.

 

Even in the delirium of his beating he believed in his heart that someone would stop the fight before he had to admit defeat. I'm sure this strategy had served him well in the past and had allowed him to continue on his career as a barroom bully.

 

Finally, in a wail of agony the coward shrieked “I give up” and we gently backed the sailor away from him.

 

I'm sure you can guess why I have shared this story today.

 

I'm not particularly proud to have been witness to such a bloody spectacle, and the sound of that bully's woman-like shrieks will haunt me to my grave. But I learned something that evening that Israel had better learn for itself if it is to finally be rid of at least one of its tormentors:

 

This is one time an Arab aggressor must be allowed to be beaten so badly that every civilized nation will stand in horror, wanting desperately to step in and stop the carnage... but knowing that the fight will only truly be over when one side gives up and finally admits defeat.

 

Just as every person who had ever rescued that bully from admitting defeat helped create the cowardly brute I saw that evening in the bar, every well-intentioned power that has ever stepped in and negotiated a ceasefire for an Arab aggressor has helped create the monsters we see around us today.

 

President Lahoud of Lebanon, a big Hezbollah supporter and a close ally of Syria, has been shrieking non-stop to the UN Security Council for the past two days to get them to force Israel into a cease fire.

 

Clearly he has been reading his autographed copy of 'Military Success for Dummies Arab Despots' by the late Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt. Ever since Nasser accidentally discovered the trick in '56, every subsequent Arab leader has stuck to his tried and true formula for military success:

 

1. Instigate a war.

2. Once the war is well underway and you are in the process of having your ass handed to you... get a few world powers to force your western opponent into a cease fire.

3. Whatever you do, don't surrender or submit to any terms dictated by your enemy. That would ruin everything! All you have to do is wait it out and eventually the world will become sickened at what is being done to your soldiers and civilian population... and will force a truce.

4. Once a truce has been called you can resume your intransigence which probably caused the conflict in the first place), and even declare victory as your opponent leaves the field of battle.

 

This tactic has never failed. Not once.

" My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference!" - Harry Truman, 33rd US President

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Guest Brumagem Phil

Nice story newt, but what if the diminutive sailor had ignored the bully and instead gone and beat up the guys wife and kids?

 

Or lets imagine it was a knife fight and this diminutive sailor in his frenzy of slashing slashed a few of your shipmates to death.

 

Would you still feel the same way?

 

I'm not anti semetic and think what happened to the Jews in the war was deplorable BUT that doesnt give them the right to practically ethnically cleanse Lebanon as they are now.

 

The world held great sympathy for the plight of the Jews, but that sympathy is slowly but surely changing to disgust around the world.

 

Islam is often cited as the religion of hatred, hostility and intolerance........one only has to see whats going on in Lebanon right now to see it not the only religion which could have those charges levelled at it.

 

Still, I'll say one thing.........its a VERY thorny issue and its a credit to this board that its been discussed in a civil manner (despite one member trying his hardest to stir it up)

 

 

 

PS....whilst reading the news tonight I found this (source was myway, a US news channel).......its kind of interesting as from a strictly numerical and military point of view you could say that hezbollah have the moral high ground in the civilians v military deaths stakes. You'd never believe it though looking at some of the news footage (Fox news for example). Still, I guess people will see what they want to see.

 

"At least 548 Lebanese have been killed since the fighting began three weeks ago, including 477 civilians and 25 Lebanese soldiers and at least 46 Hezbollah guerrillas. The health minister says the toll could be as high as 750, including those still buried in rubble or missing.

 

In all, 55 Israelis have died - 36 soldiers as well as 19 civilians killed in Hezbollah rocket attacks."

Edited by Brumagem Phil
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