Bradshaw fouls up.

[Leon Roskilly]

Age: 2 %Mature: 0 Weight (Kilo): 0.1 Length (Cent): 21.5

Age: 3 %Mature: 0.03 Weight (Kilo): 0.439 Length (Cent): 35.3

Age: 4 %Mature: 0.23 Weight (Kilo): 0.637 Length (Cent): 39.9

Age: 5 %Mature: 0.43 Weight (Kilo): 0.718 Length (Cent): 41.6

Age: 6 %Mature: 0.57 Weight (Kilo): 0.8195 Length (Cent): 43.4

Age: 7 %Mature: 0.9 Weight (Kilo): 1.0045 Length (Cent): 46.5

Age: 8 %Mature: all Weight (Kilo): 1.182 Length (Cent): 49.1

Age: 9 %Mature: all Weight (Kilo): 1.4595 Length (Cent): 52.7

Age: 10 %Mature: all Weight (Kilo): 1.7055 Length (Cent): 55.5

Age: 11 %Mature: all Weight (Kilo): 2.1275 Length (Cent): 59.7

Age: 12 %Mature: all Weight (Kilo): 2.4275 Length (Cent): 62.4

 

 

Bass can live 25 years, spawning 15 times and grow to over 20lbs.

 

Male fish do not grow large

 

The current MLS (36cm) is well below the age of spawning

 

It's interesting that bass shoal together for life. As the shoal gets older, it gets smaller as shoal members get taken, leading to the claim that big bass are solitary. They are not, just lone survivors. (Before intensive exploitation, if you hooked a big bass, you'd most likely catch another if you cast again quickly).

 

Young bass tend to be nomadic, but settle down in one locality as they get bigger. If you want to keep catching big bass, put them back and tell no one. When word gets out, it's not long before all the big bass that live there are taken, gone forever.

 

 

See also: http://www.anglers-net.co.uk/sacn/article23.htm

 

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Size of bass at 5years of age according to geographic area.

Zone Male Female

 

S France (Sete) 48 cm 54 cm*

Brittany 40 cm 41 cm*

Ireland 33 cm 35 cm*

 

UK East Coast (1991) 47cm (both sexes combined)**

 

* From Barnabe (1976) ** From Pickett and Pawson (1994)

 

 

Growth rates appeared to increase above these values, perhaps in relation to climate change, in the 1990s. Particularly fast growing fish have recently been recorded in the Netherlands and Norway.

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Mike Pawson, the CEFAS bass expert, writing in Fishing News of the 2nd of December states:

 

"The results of these studies were similar, except that a migration of bass in late autumn from the North Sea to offshore spawning areas in the western English Channel (where these fish were caught in the pair-trawl fishery in winter) no longer appears to take place.

 

In general, adult bass now appear to remain near their summer feeding areas much later in the year, and to spawn further north, possibly as a consequence of climate warming.

 

The most recent tagging study also showed that the winter offshore fishery probably accounts for no more that 10% of the exploitation of bass otherwise taken in fisheries (both commercial and recreational) within UK territorial waters. Overall, there appears to be relatively little mixing between 'UK' stocks and those along the continental and Irish coasts."

[steve pitts]

Conflicting 'evidence'

 

Page 27 of the RIA states that at age 6 bass are 40cms in length, weigh .878kg and 57% are mature...

but this is based on both sexes.

 

It is accepted that female bass do not have viable roe until they reach 42cm

(they may have ovaries with eggs which are not capable of being fertilised) and that male bass are capable of producing milt at a smaller size - somewhere between 32 -35 cm. It is size - not age which determines sexual maturity.

 

The 45 cm size limit was put forward, as this is the first length at which we can be sure that female bass will have spawned at least once.

 

40cms is below the 42 cms, which Defra claim is the average maturity size for bass, so the new MLS will be set well below the realistic size of maturity for female bass - the brood fish.

 

It has been confirmed that our fisheries managers have learned nothing from past mistakes.

 

Cheers

Steve

Edited August 11, 2006 by steve pitts

[stavey]

Stavey. What planet are you on?

Just take a look at the charter boats websites for the S.West. Try and find a skipper that doesn`t target bass during the summer/autumn months when the tides are suitable, unless they are after the even more profitable tope/shark market.

Sorry, but the bass are there. And concealing the truth will just make us look foolish. Why do you think the west country lads moan about Peterhead boats coming down. Do you think they steam all that way for nothing?

 

Spasor have you heard of the word SOLIDARITY, obviously not, and neither of your sw charter boat buddies have by the sound of it, pathetic...............

[spanner]

Thanks guys, thats more like it, but they are not scientific papers investigating the maturity of bass but stock modelling based on assumed maturity rate.

 

Based on those maturity figures there would appear to be some merit in a 40cm MLS being an improvement on 36cm, going from 3% maturity to 23% maturity. However, as these figures are an average of both sexes, and they differ significantly, they are not much use.

 

Interesting comment on the modelling based on 40cm MLS on page34 of the RIA though ....

 

"A 40cm MLS would, therefore seem to offer a way for the existing fisheries to operate much as present.........There may be gains for the angling community in terms of greater availavility of larger fish but these are substantially reduced compared to the 45cm scenario."

 

This is the french paper I was looking at, and its got a whole section on ovaries, eggs and viability.... if only my french was good enough.

http://www.ifremer.fr/docelec/doc/2005/these-1088.pdf

[steve pitts]

Spanner

 

Have look at the CEFAS Scientific Paper which was produced in the Defra MLS consultation appendix.

 

The author was Mike Pawson, who is acknowledged as knowing about as much on bass biology and reproduction as anyone.

 

http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/...'pawson%20%

 

On page two - second paragraph you will find the following, when discussing the merits of a 45cm MLS -

 

A first exploitation size at 45cm also confers considerable protection of female bass up to size at which they first spawn, which is consistently above 42cm in NW Europe (Pawson and Pickett 1996)

 

Hope this goes some way to answering your quest.

 

Cheers

Steve

Edited August 11, 2006 by steve pitts

[steve pitts]

Spanner

 

Also have a look at the study group on bass report for ICES - SECTION 5.2

 

Maturity for female bass quoted as between 40 and 45cm around Britain and Ireland and 42cm in Biscay.

 

http://www.ices.dk/products/CMdocs/2005/AC...20and%20pickett

[guernseybass]

whoa chaps, you may have lost the battle but you haven't lost the war yet .

 

40 cm IS better than nothing as is the mesh changes, DEFRA could have just listened to the commercials and the ICES scientists and changed absolutely nothing.

 

also the RSA bag limits are also a good thing, as they will prevent those guys that are taking 5 or 10 bass every trip - if that is introduced in GUernsey as i hope it is, it will stop the catches of 30 plus spawning bass a day by so called RSA's

 

I support the license and will continue to do so - it formalises our position as stakeholders. that said, organised deliberate public disobediance ( group illegal fish-ins etc) would draw media and hence public attention to the RSA cause

 

once we are formal stakeholders, the position must be stronger surely.

 

i don't think this is a time for blame, regrets or retreating but a time for unity and advancement.

 

march on Downing street i say.

 

MArk

Edited August 11, 2006 by guernseybass

[spanner]

Steve,

 

Thanks for those, I already ready the CEFAS one. The trouble is they just quote somebody else's work. A statement like "consistently above 42cm" is actually not very speficic. Did he actually mean always, nearly always, usually or what? And how often is it less than 42cm, never or sometimes? And if it is less than 42cm how much less and how often?

 

It may seem picky but in my work I frequently come across people either mis-quoting or mis-applying other peoples work. Or even worse using somebody elses conclusions as the basis of a whole bunch of new work without understanding that the original work was based a bunch of dodgy assumptions. Castles in the sand and all that......

 

It seems that whenever I do a search on the source material for bass you always have to pay.... and I'm too bloody cheap. I guess I should have been a marine biologist

Edited August 11, 2006 by spanner

[steve pitts]

Steve,

 

Thanks for those, I already ready the CEFAS one. The trouble is they just quote somebody else's work. A statement like "consistently above 42cm" is actually not very speficic. Did he actually mean always, nearly always, usually or what? And how often is it less than 42cm, never or sometimes? And if it is less than 42cm how much less and how often?

 

It may seem picky but in my work I frequently come across people either mis-quoting or mis-applying other peoples work. Or even worse using somebody elses conclusions as the basis of a whole bunch of new work without understanding that the original work was based a bunch of dodgy assumptions. Castles in the sand and all that......

 

It seems that whenever I do a search on the source material for bass you always have to pay.... and I'm too bloody cheap. I guess I should have been a marine biologist

 

Spanner

Mike Pawson is quoting his own work in the MLS consultation Regulatory Assesment.

Mike Pawson is quoting his own work and references to others in the ICES report.

 

Mike Pawson and Graham Pickett have spent most of their accademic lives studying bass and have written a book on the species

http://www.ecampus.com/bk_detail.asp?isbn=0412400901 (sorry it's not free )

 

Variations in size at maturity is bound to be subject to enviromental factors as well, so I don't think that there is a 'set' size, but if Mike Pawson says that female bass mature at 40 - 45 cm, with maturity mostly occuring above 42cm, that is his opinion, based on his own research and generally accepted studies by others.

Edited August 12, 2006 by steve pitts

[Pugs]

This government is an absolute waste of time and Mr Bradshaw is a cop out. Livid with the descision

 

They can go and ram any sea angling licence where the sun don't shine. No way would I pay for one and fish for sweet FA left in our waters.....

 

As for charter boats and other angling organisations voting for doing sweet fa, well what can you say?

 

[several small edits made to this post - John S]

Edited August 12, 2006 by John S