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Mass intentional (?) lead poisoning of swans - any thoughts?


philocalist

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philo,

 

The article doesn't say. You do reckon a duck or two have been harvested and autopsied don't you? The agent that activates heavy metal poisoning does not even have to be more lead - mold on bread could weaken swans and of course lead is present in the autopsy. Among other things, swans dig deeper into the bottom than other birds. Lead, this lead, could be from war time.

 

Phone

 

 

Hi phone - the article is just the most recent one, now available as a 'national' via The BBC website, though the problem has been running since Christmas and is very local to me on a stretch of river I see a few times each week, so there is a fair amount of info available that is not included in that article.

Autopsies have been done on dead swans, and to be fair, I'm assuming that there have been no issues with other wildfowl, as non has ever been mentioned, which you assume would happen if ducks etc were obviously going belly-up in numbers, though from a scientific viewpoint, I see what you mean about cropping a couple of ducks and having a looky-see as a comparison.

Thing is, swans are big impressive birds that people (in the UK) get emotive about, despite traits they have that many anglers are all too familiar with, so someone will be pushing for answers, particularly if intentional poisoning is suspected.

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The River Wear rises in the Lead dales of Durham, and they may be a legacy from that; but it is difficult to see why only Swans are affected and why it is happening so far from the source of the lead ore. Perhaps relic deposits in the river bed that have been scoured out by a recent flood, but who knows?

Tony

Edited by Tony U

Tony

 

After a certain age, if you don't wake up aching in every joint, you are probably dead.

 

 

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Someone wants angling banned in the particular place and has no qualms how its done?

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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Someone wants angling banned in the particular place and has no qualms how its done?

Chesters - as I said earlier, fishing is already banned in this area - and the ban respected - (for reasons unassociated with the swans), although that stretch of river is, overall, controlled by an angling club where major interests lie in the runs of salmon and seatrout, i.e. fly-fishermen almost exclusively.

As much as anything, it's puzzling because the swans have been there in numbers, perfectly healthy and thriving, for several years, so these deaths are a new, unexplained occurence

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Perhaps the naughty swans chase trout?

Things rarely happen for no reason ,perhaps the swans attacked a dog ,pram ,walker ,eskimo ,or they may taste nice with a gizzard of lead to someone

I for one would exterminate 90% of them theres far to many ,perhaps 2 on one swan / canadian goose fights could be arranged

Edited by chesters1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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Philo,

 

I sympathize with those that enjoy the swans. Such a situation must be gutting.

 

I can't impress on you enough some "differences"

1. Swans have POWERFUL feet and can dig deeper into the bottom than ducks and geese. In general they can use sub straight (sp?) at least a foot or two deeper than other residences

2. Swans are at least twice as sensitive to heavy metals

 

Has there been a noticeable difference (since Christmas) in the depth or definition of the river?

 

Look for "something" that only the swans can reach. My experience is that swans can run off about any other bird including geese.

 

Phone

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Did read an article a while back (but can't find it now) that said many swans show signs of lead poisoning. As Phone says they are very sensitive to heavy metals and there is lots of it out there.

 

To a blind vet even one run over by a Number 52 bus might have died of lead poisoning.

 

Are they blaming lead dust because they have found lots of it or because they can't find any?

 

A tiger does not lose sleep over the opinion of sheep

 

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If I were going to poison something with lead, I wouldn't use lead dust, I'd use a soluble salt of lead.

OK, so we now know it isn't you :) but that leads to a trail of thought - poisoning swans with lead by design is not easy.

 

If it Is a deliberate act, consider what the person(s) concerned might use

 

They would be constrained, firstly by whatever knowledge they have, secondly by what form of lead they could lay hands on, and thirdly by how it might be administered. If there is any suspicion of deliberate poisoning, then those constraints could narrow the field of investigation - think profile and opportunity.

 

Soluble lead salts are not readily available - in fact, any form of lead apart from the metal itself is not easy to come by. Issues include cost, finding a source, and answers to "what do you want it for?" questions .

 

Amongst nasties that used to be readily available from your local ironmonger were ..

 

"Sugar of lead" (lead acetate) which is soluble, and (amongst other uses) was once used as a sweetener (!!) It has been banned for that and most other uses.

 

Insoluble "red lead" ( triplumbic tetroxide) used to be available in commercial quantity and quality, but I don't think it is readily available these days.

 

 

RNLI Governor

 

World species 471 : UK species 105 : English species 95 .

Certhia's world species - 215

Eclectic "husband and wife combined" world species 501

 

"Nothing matters very much, few things matter at all" - Plato

...only things like fresh bait and cold beer...

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Just found this on the pages of a 'Swan Rescue' in the area, r eferring to birds from this incident - may put into perspective the levels of poisoning that are being encountered:

 

' ..... have received via the R.S.P.C.A. two swans from recovering from lead poisoning. They have been treated by vets in Morpeth and have come up to us to continue their recovery. They are both poor looking birds but have now started eating a bit more and although it may take quite a long time we hope they will eventually regain full health. To give an indication of the lead levels in the swans, the normal level for lead in the blood is 0- 1.21 umol/l. One of the birds from this incident with us now had a level of 15.56 umol/l. This shows the seriousness of this incident which has already killed at least .... '

 

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