Might make you reconsider - Guns

[Tigger2000]

Rabbit - banning guns does not work in the long term. The only people that take any notice of the ban are the law abiding people! In this country we have NO punishment! - JAILS? they are a laugh, full to overflowing as they are no deterrent at all!! (look at all the people from other parts of the world who are DESPERATE to serve their sentences in the UK (the soft option!)

Every day you see old age pensioners, disabled people etc. being beaten up and stabbed for a mobile phone by unfeeling yobs because there is NO punishment for them!

One of these days someone is going to fight back using a weapon to "even the odds" and they are going to be seriously hurt, if not killed! Drastic? Yes, but the police do nothing, or when the do the courts are reluctant to send them to a hotel - sorry Jail - and they get away with their hand slapped to do it again!!!!!

 

 

I totally agree with you Kleinboet about the lack of any real punishment for those who commit crime, the whole system is far too soft and then you have this crazy situation where pleading guilty will get you an automatic 50% reduction on your sentance in most cases. Where is the punishment in a system that operates by those guidlines ? What we need is tougher sentancing, ok it may not stop anyone commiting a crime in the first place but I believe that it would have a marked effect on the offenders who repeatedly go out and re offend. Not all countries are as soft as us, take the U.S.A for instance http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/ It seems that all too often more importance is placed on the rights of offenders than of the rights of victims As for the gun issue I don't believe that that tougher sentancing would have any effect on the gun crime figures whatsoever unless you bring back the death penalty and then it would have an immediate effect I strongly believe, in reducing the ammount of robberies and drug related crimes where guns are used. But do we even want to consider going back down that road ?

[Ken Davison South Wales]

There is a vast difference in gun culture between the USA and the UK.

 

That said to compare the two is impossible.

 

I support the right of gun clubs in the UK providing all weapons and ammunition are retained at the club in secure conditions.

 

I worked in Iran in the early seventies and believe me it was bandit country outside any major town. The only way to remain secure was to employ these people as site/camp guards, once on the payroll they were 100% loyal.

 

However if a fracas broke out between rival elements guns were the deciding factor and that is not a situation to be taken lightly.

 

Had they had no guns then the danger to bystanders would have been reduced to nil, but with guns involved it was a case of heads down and hope for the best. Having been there believe me it is not something you would enjoy. Because owning a gun was a status symbol there was a wide variety of weapons a number of which were home made to some degree.

 

I firmly believe that guns of all descriptions outside licensed clubs in the UK should be rigorously controlled and penalties for breaking these laws should carry long term sentences.

 

I think Newts comments are probably correct when applied to the USA but they would not work over here.

[Slack lines]

Just out of interest, does anyone know what the laws are reguarding firearms, in the rest of Europe??

[RobStubbs]

I firmly believe that guns of all descriptions outside licensed clubs in the UK should be rigorously controlled and penalties for breaking these laws should carry long term sentences.

 

A) They already are as are guns within licenced gun clubs. Penalties are paltry for the criminals, 'ordinary' Jo Public gets a slightly tougher time. That said the laws are very strong, they are just weakly applied.

 

I think Newts comments are probably correct when applied to the USA but they would not work over here.

 

No reason at all why not. I don't know how many legal guns there are in the UK, but I'd guess not far off a million. As for illegal ones, who knows, deffinately a hell of a lot.

 

As said previously more guns = less crime, why because the criminals have more to fear from being killed by the people they are trying to commit crime against. In one state I'm pretty sure they more or less encourage you to shoot armed burglars, result, next to no burgeries.

 

As for the rest of Europe, most have similar systems to us. Handguns are however legal in all of them I think. We all know Switzerland has a massive gun ownership and very low level of gun crime, partly because guns are the norm over there. That said they still need firearms certificates although they are far easier to obtain, even as a foreign national, than our own certificates.

 

Rob.

[snakey1]

The laws covering firearms in europe are many and varied from restrictions that are as tight as the uk's to countries like switzerland where firearms are remarkably common(including "assault rifles" ) infact in switzerland almost every household contains a firearm (they have the lowest armed crime rate in europe mysteriously but then again national service is compulsary.)

In switzerland they have recently been trying to tighten their firearms laws to fit in with their more restricted neighbours like germany, italy and austria, hoping to lower their already low crime rate(strangely italy germany and austria although having tighter gun controls also have high firearms and violent crime rates, strange again if restricting access to firearms reduces crime.)

some other interesting statistics (call them lies if you will)

in the year 2000 the uks murder rate was 68% higher than that of switzerland the number of rapes 188% higher and the number of robberies an amazing 493% higher and yet we have probably the strictist firearms laws in europe while the swiss have one of the least restrictive make of these figure what you will.

One last thing since my earlier posting at 3.58pm there has been another shooting in birmingham this one fatal and this one approximately 3 miles from where i live, that makes 3 so far that i know of this week all local to me, obviously in my neck of the woods at least gun control seems to be working just fine

maybe "we the public" aren't under attack but sometimes it sure feels like it. maybe i should move to tewkesbury it seems to be all rose tinted there.

[Guest Rabbit]

The laws covering firearms in europe are many and varied from restrictions that are as tight as the uk's to countries like switzerland where firearms are remarkably common(including "assault rifles" ) infact in switzerland almost every household contains a firearm (they have the lowest armed crime rate in europe mysteriously but then again national service is compulsary.)

In switzerland they have recently been trying to tighten their firearms laws to fit in with their more restricted neighbours like germany, italy and austria, hoping to lower their already low crime rate(strangely italy germany and austria although having tighter gun controls also have high firearms and violent crime rates, strange again if restricting access to firearms reduces crime.)

some other interesting statistics (call them lies if you will)

in the year 2000 the uks murder rate was 68% higher than that of switzerland the number of rapes 188% higher and the number of robberies an amazing 493% higher and yet we have probably the strictist firearms laws in europe while the swiss have one of the least restrictive make of these figure what you will.

One last thing since my earlier posting at 3.58pm there has been another shooting in birmingham this one fatal and this one approximately 3 miles from where i live, that makes 3 so far that i know of this week all local to me, obviously in my neck of the woods at least gun control seems to be working just fine

maybe "we the public" aren't under attack but sometimes it sure feels like it. maybe i should move to tewkesbury it seems to be all rose tinted there.

 

Well thats up to you, but I havn't lived here all my life, just about 22 months in fact, I was born in Bristol and grew up in a less than leafy suburb. I haved lived in London and other cities and witnessed violence.

I dont see the world through rose tinted glasses, or squinty eyed bigotry either.

Of course their are particular hotspots of gun crime in the UK, but it would be wrong to consider these areas as a typical example of gun crime in the UK. Of course more effort is needed to stamp out the problem in these areas, perhaps more stop and search?

I dont think you should draw on any comfort in thinking that a relaxed attitude to firearm ownership would reduce the crime rate, it won't.

Edited November 30, 2006 by Rabbit

[RobStubbs]

I dont think you should draw on any comfort in thinking that a relaxed attitude to firearm ownership would reduce the crime rate, it won't.

 

No ones suggested a 'relaxed attitude' to firearms but the evidence above suggests that it quite probably will reduce gun crime, you just choose to ignore that.

 

Rob.

[Guest Rabbit]

No ones suggested a 'relaxed attitude' to firearms but the evidence above suggests that it quite probably will reduce gun crime, you just choose to ignore that.

 

Rob.

Yep, Switzerland is hardly a fair comparison to UK is it? Try looking at Brazil now there's a country that has got problems, 1 in 7 of the population own a firearm and the murder rate has hit the roof.

Edited December 1, 2006 by Rabbit

[Newt]

Switzerland is hardly a fair comparison to UK is it? Try looking at Brazil

 

Sorry but how is a comparison with Brazil more reasonable for the UK than Switzerland?

[Guest Rabbit]

Sorry but how is a comparison with Brazil more reasonable for the UK than Switzerland?

Come on Newt is this a wind up? Everyone knows the Swiss are a peace lovin' nation, managed to avoid the last two wars anyway.

Edited November 30, 2006 by Rabbit