Anglers Should Be Licensed And their Catches Restricted.

[barry luxton]

I must admit I'm not too optimistic regarding rational discussion between RSA and commercial sectors, given that there is also plenty of arguing, name calling and insult trading between anglers on this forum, and plenty of disagreement between commercial sectors in the real world.

 

 

Well it certainly ain't me

[JB]

Quite true JB, but it all revolved around local people, so if it can't be achieved within a small coastal town, what chance on the broader scale ? Is it just a Whitby thing, or does it reflect a wider problem ?

 

I must admit I'm not too optimistic regarding rational discussion between RSA and commercial sectors, given that there is also plenty of arguing, name calling and insult trading between anglers on this forum, and plenty of disagreement between commercial sectors in the real world.

 

How do you think the debate can actually be moved forward, what process would help improve understanding and cut out all the negative stuff ?

Hi Seaside,

I agree, in Whitby a few locals have caused much bad feeling amongst both the charter and commercial parts of the community. But also much bad feeling from all parts of the country towards commercial fishermen has been aired on this forum. In my opinion, most of the bad feelings and accusations have been made by people who have little experience in, or are ill informed on, the subject of commercial fishing. I have never professed to be an expert on either RSA or commercial fishing or the politics concerning either. But I have many years of extensive experience in both subjects and definitely know there is no black or white solution, and the shades of grey seem to be infinite.

 

The forum in itself has not been a good ambassador for RSA and commercial fishing relations. If I were a commercial fisherman with no experience of anglers and someone informed me I was being ‘slagged off’ on the internet, naturally I would check out what was being written. On reading posts on this forum, and probably other forums, I would class RSA as a potential enemy to the commercial sector. Having had much experience dealing with sea anglers, I realise that they are, in the main, very good, well-balanced people and they are in no way represented by the views of a few on these forums.

 

You ask, “How do you think the debate can actually be moved forward, what process would help improve understanding and cut out all the negative stuff?”

 

Maybe the more outspoken posters could use less emotion, less aggression, less name-calling, and more careful and rational thought before posting. Also, perhaps they could recognise that other people may also have valid points of view, even if they differ from their own. In some cases, perhaps they should refrain from posting at all.

 

As to action, I still believe RSA and Commercials have more in common than they have differences. But I appear to be in a minority on this forum. I started a topic on here on November 27th 2005 titled ‘Compromise’. This post fell on stony ground. Personally, I believe it had – and still has - merit.

 

JB

[barry luxton]

Hi Seaside,

I agree, in Whitby a few locals have caused much bad feeling amongst both the charter and commercial parts of the community. But also much bad feeling from all parts of the country towards commercial fishermen has been aired on this forum. In my opinion, most of the bad feelings and accusations have been made by people who have little experience in, or are ill informed on, the subject of commercial fishing. I have never professed to be an expert on either RSA or commercial fishing or the politics concerning either. But I have many years of extensive experience in both subjects and definitely know there is no black or white solution, and the shades of grey seem to be infinite.

 

The forum in itself has not been a good ambassador for RSA and commercial fishing relations. If I were a commercial fisherman with no experience of anglers and someone informed me I was being ‘slagged off’ on the internet, naturally I would check out what was being written. On reading posts on this forum, and probably other forums, I would class RSA as a potential enemy to the commercial sector. Having had much experience dealing with sea anglers, I realise that they are, in the main, very good, well-balanced people and they are in no way represented by the views of a few on these forums.

 

You ask, “How do you think the debate can actually be moved forward, what process would help improve understanding and cut out all the negative stuff?”

 

Maybe the more outspoken posters could use less emotion, less aggression, less name-calling, and more careful and rational thought before posting. Also, perhaps they could recognise that other people may also have valid points of view, even if they differ from their own. In some cases, perhaps they should refrain from posting at all.

 

As to action, I still believe RSA and Commercials have more in common than they have differences. But I appear to be in a minority on this forum. I started a topic on here on November 27th 2005 titled ‘Compromise’. This post fell on stony ground. Personally, I believe it had – and still has - merit.

 

JB

 

 

A very good post John,

 

i am a dedicated rsa for forty or so years but some of the ideas put forward i do not agree with. The idea of ntz petition just for commercial is unbalanced so therefore unfair, untill proven otherwise i will not be convinced. There are things with regards to the commercial sector however i do not agree with and again untill proven i will still argue the point. On a small scale what happend in the channel isle's this spring by things said from the commercial sector against rsa's was not proven or corroberated, i would find it difficult to compromise with that. I believe that there is common ground, but with too many fingers in our little pie it is somewhat difficult.

 

cheers barry

[big_cod]

Quite true JB, but it all revolved around local people, so if it can't be achieved within a small coastal town, what chance on the broader scale ? Is it just a Whitby thing, or does it reflect a wider problem ?

 

I must admit I'm not too optimistic regarding rational discussion between RSA and commercial sectors, given that there is also plenty of arguing, name calling and insult trading between anglers on this forum, and plenty of disagreement between commercial sectors in the real world.

 

How do you think the debate can actually be moved forward, what process would help improve understanding and cut out all the negative stuff ?

Edited December 4, 2006 by big_cod

[Toerag]

JB - would you say that the licencing restrictions are now a good thing, given the restriction in effort that is now happening to the industry? I think they do, and they certainly prevent people jumping on the bandwagon in times of plenty which the fulltime guys need to pay for the times of famine.

[wurzel]

JB - would you say that the licencing restrictions are now a good thing, given the restriction in effort that is now happening to the industry? I think they do, and they certainly prevent people jumping on the bandwagon in times of plenty which the fulltime guys need to pay for the times of famine.

 

 

That depends on the management Toerag,

 

If say cod stocks in the North Sea suddenly exploded again, due to a minnie Ice age, the EU will say " oh dear we have a sea full of fish, but no fishermen left to fish it, we need to harvest this resource so we had better let Spain -----------------"

 

I often wonder if that is not the game plan any way.

[frankthebass]

Wurzel, I think they would ignor the fact of the mini ice age and state that it was an EU fisheries pollicy sucsess story dont you?

[wurzel]

Wurzel, I think they would ignor the fact of the mini ice age and state that it was an EU fisheries pollicy sucsess story dont you?

 

 

Thats about right Sam.

 

A bit like saying bass nursery areas boosted bass stocks.

[JB]

JB - would you say that the licencing restrictions are now a good thing, given the restriction in effort that is now happening to the industry? I think they do, and they certainly prevent people jumping on the bandwagon in times of plenty which the fulltime guys need to pay for the times of famine.

The licence in itself (because it now has a high monetary value) has now become outdated and an unnecessary expense and encumbrance on a young fisherman wanting to make a future for himself in the industry. The only way they benefit fishermen is as a retirement fund or a ‘new-start fund’ for anyone getting out of the industry. Whenever licences change hands, or are transferred to a newer vessel, they can lose up to twenty percent of their unit value. (This has been used as another way of gradually reducing unit effort.) Also, what many may not be fully aware of, a commercial fishing licence on its own without quota or track record is only of any value for catching non quota species, which are fewer each year. Eventually all species will have a quota.

 

In my opinion, as fishing licences now have little ‘control’ value, the fishing licence should be more like a permit which should be granted to anyone for a nominal charge each year. Fishing itself should be regulated by quota. That way, commercial fishermen would be able to fish in a vessel which is suitable for the job they intend to do, rather than in a substandard ‘rule beating vessel’ which may be inadequate for the job or even potentially unsafe. I know from personal experience that it is far more comfortable and much safer to do the work that I am doing with a boat that is completely on top of the job, rather than in a boat that falls within MCA criteria but is really unsuitable.

 

A fine example of the permit system is in New Zealand. A commercial fishing licence is available to anyone whether they have a speed boat on a trailer or a hundred foot seiner, but unless you have quota you cannot catch fish commercially. If you hold quota, when you have used up your entitlement, it then becomes illegal for you to fish. (A bit like the crab boats on “The Deadliest Catch” television series.)

 

I also tend to believe Wurzel’s suspicions. It is said that Spain is to become the ‘fish basket of Europe’ and will eventfully take over the vast majority of the fishing interests within the EU. If this comes to pass, then as John Laurie used to say “WE’RE ALL DOOMED!” Committees, associations, federations, catch and release campaigners, tree huggers, and whatever other conservation bodies there are, can say what they like, but the Spanish will just keep on fishing in exactly the way they want to. The Spanish don’t ‘do’ rules and regulations, and our government hasn’t got the balls to enforce rules.

 

JB

[big_cod]

I understand MR locker was on the local radio station the other day saying anglers should be licenced my god what has the world come to what ****ing threat do anglers pose to commercial fishing its a absolute discrace and he should be ashamed of him self beleve me there is some very angry people starting to brew his comments are utter rubbish and little does he know a lot of people are now beginging to ask questions where all this shite what was in the fishing news came from in the first place, the sea has been piligaged and raped for years and there was never so much a whisper when the going was good i have talked to many people this last week after seeing the artickle in the local rag and they are disgusted at his comments because the simple fact is they know the truth and say just how has that man got the ordasity what has gone on over the years is just believe the hiposcrisy involved its just unbelievable genuine local people are not very happy including the whole of the whitby charter skippers association.