Jump to content

No More Trebles


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 173
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

For the last couple of years I've been using circle hooks when livebaiting mackerel and pouting for bass, and my confidence has increased to the extent that I'm also using circles (size 4/0) when using other baits.

 

Where abouts you been livebaiting for the bass Leon, was it also over reefs or wrecks, anything of any size, any photo's regards bass mad barry, specially with live bait.

 

Never tried pout before as i have difficulty in catching them. :lol:

Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.


New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.

Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.

Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.

new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.

Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are..

Link to post
Share on other sites

We first started chatting about circles on this forum back in 2003/4! Doesn't seem possible but it was THAT long ago!! Back then we had Argyll R.I.P. in our midst. He was particularly interested in their use with lures and perch flies that he used to tie. For myself I bought a big packet of 5/0 barbless circle sea hooks from Harris Angling. I'm still using them, confident that they do the job, especially with spoons and jelly worms and sink and draw shads. Newt, lovely man, when he came over the pond brought me oodles of worm stuff including several variations of the circle hook. Since these have all be taken out of their packets and stored in compartmented boxes so I have not got a clue what make or design the hooks are, but on the right day they catch.

 

This past week has been the right day and I have had some excellent piking up on the Broads using Texas rigged grubz and worms. Weather wise its been a 'high' and the pike are in the reeds. Hurling a bait at and into the reeds has caught me numerous fish on the drop, as soon as the bait has entered the water, fish to 16 pounds. I've had very few fish from open water so they are all bonus fish that I would probably not have caught any other way. The great thing about this rig, and circles in general, is that you can fish deep into the crud and not snag. Its exciting stuff too. In shallow water, a foot or less in some cases, the pike can only go one way, and that is up! Try it, you will be surprised at just how effective circles are.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Where abouts you been livebaiting for the bass Leon, was it also over reefs or wrecks, anything of any size, any photo's regards bass mad barry, specially with live bait.

 

Never tried pout before as i have difficulty in catching them. :lol:

 

Anywhere I can, from the shore when I have livebait available.

 

Still not had a bass above 5lb though :(

 

You should have come along to Rochester Riverside yesterday Barry, there was a surfeit of pout!

 

(but the livebait remained untouched :( )

RNLI Shoreline Member

Member of the Angling Trust

Link to post
Share on other sites

I still haven't tried circles - I'll give them a go this winter. I'm not sure about using them with large deadbaits, but if I'm using small deads I'll try circles and report back. I've never really had any problems with trebles though. I think I'm going to have a livebait-free winter this year, if it goes well I don't think I'll be using them again.

 

I wouldn't use circles for perch because I only ever use worm as bait (BTW I enjoyed rereading your perch haul from last seaon Rich! Let's hope they're back this year!).

 

Am I right in thinking that circles are best used with livebaits and small deads?

Edited by Anderoo

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

Link to post
Share on other sites
I've never really had any problems with trebles though.

 

 

That was my take too Anderoo.

 

Using trebles was traditional and proven, and was not causing me any problems so why change?

 

But clearly there use by anglers generally was causing a problem for pike (and therefore the pike stocks that I target).

 

If there is a better way, reducing the risks to pike, that can be promoted as an alternative then perhaps I should adopt it, if only as an example to newcomers to pike-fishing.

 

So this old dog is trying to learn a new trick, not for any advantage to my fishing, but for the example that might be set.

 

I won't really take a firm position on the use of circles until I've had the experience of at least a full season.

 

Theory more often fails when put to the test, and a few sessions really isn't enough to call for the abandonment of practices centuries old!

 

So for me the use of circles is still an experiment, and there is still a lot to learn.

 

(But maybe it is time for trebles to follow the centuries old use of trimmers, gorge baits, gaffs, gags, knotted mesh, and like the introduction of unhooking mats, for circle hooks take us on another step along the road).

 

And that's where other folks experiences can help, finding the actual problems as well as confirming positive results.

 

Regarding larger baits, I would surmise that the way circles work, a single hook is all that is needed as you can give the pike time to turn and engulf the bait (unlike trebles where early striking is essential and you need to ensure, as much as possible, that the pike has at least one treble in its mouth in the portion of the bait that it has grabbed).

 

With circles, because the pike engages the hook, not you through 'striking' or 'leaning into' the fish, then it is a case of letting the pike swim against light resistance until you feel it pull away and the hook self-engages.

 

But that is what has to be experimented with to understand more.

 

Is a single circle hook adequate on a large bait or not?

 

However, unless I need the weight for casting distance, I don't usually use large baits for piking.

 

My reasoning being that although pike will choose to chase larger fish to justify the energy expended (the meal has to be worth the chase), deadbaits and livebaits work differently.

 

The pike follows a scent or vibration trail with no indication or size of the target until close up, then even a 30lb pike is not going to turn its nose up at a snack that is waiting there.

Edited by Leon Roskilly

RNLI Shoreline Member

Member of the Angling Trust

Link to post
Share on other sites

I admire Leon's experimental attitude to pike fishing and I'm intrigued by his use of circles for pike fishing. Now please don't assume I'm simply jumping on the idea here. This is simply a question OK.

Why is is any better hooking a pike in the scissors?

I'm from the two treble camp when bait fishing but I'm also a big advocate of instant striking and better unhooking techniques. That is without question. I understand as much as any piker what damage a set of swallowed trebles can do. If people learn to instant strike, there is a lesser chance of gut-hooking pike and the trebles might find a solid hold in the pike's mouth-plates. I say might because I struck and lost 4 or 5 fish, while landing only 2. I think that ratio, although poor, is OK from the pike's point of view. No harm done.

Back to the circles now. I wonder if hooking in the scissors is actually detrimental. The scissors is the mechanism for the pike to operate it's jaw for eating and breathing I would think. Which hook-hold is better from the pike's point of view; the solid hold on the pike's bony mouth-plates or by the scissors?

I'm not looking for an argument OK. I'm asking because this concerns me too. I have some of Argylle's circles on some of my lures, so I sit in both camps.

 

Gozzer, I guess the 'Pike Police' must be me then? (seeing as it was me who jumped on you from a great height) I ask, is it my job to sit as Chairman at every piking discussion, every day or am I allowed to go fishing also? Get over it. I said what I felt at the time. I don't have to repeat myself for you or Richard. He's a grown man, as are you......apparently.

¤«Thʤ«PÔâ©H¤MëíTë®»¤

 

Click HERE for in-fighting, scrapping, name-calling, objectional and often explicit behaviour and cakes. Mind your tin-hat

 

Click HERE for Tench Fishing World forums

 

Playboy.jpg

 

LandaPikkoSig.jpg

 

"I envy not him that eats better meat than I do, nor him that is richer, or that wears better clothes than I do. I envy nobody but him, and him only, that catches more fish than I do"

...Izaac Walton...

 

"It looked a really nice swim betwixt weedbed and bank"

...Vagabond...

Link to post
Share on other sites
Back to the circles now. I wonder if hooking in the scissors is actually detrimental. The scissors is the mechanism for the pike to operate it's jaw for eating and breathing I would think.

 

The scissors is just the part of the mouth where the top jaw meets the bottom jaw (the mechanism for opening and closing the mouth are muscles located elsewhere).

 

So hooking here is really no different to hooking in any other part of the mouth, except it makes the hook easier to locate and to remove, especially by a novice.

 

Trebles are inherently dangerous when taken down deep in ways that single hooks, especially circles, are not.

 

There is no need to delay engaging the hook later than when using trebles but if, through inattentiveness or poor bite detection they are taken down, they are still more likely to eventually engage in the scissors (or worse possible case, a circle lost in the gullet is a lot safer than leaving behind a treble) so general acceptance of circles would more likely encourage novices to use them as a safer method when starting out pike fishing, and perhaps we will see less of the consequences of that, and better pike fishing as a result, especially on pressured waters.

 

(As my first session concentrated on leaving runs overly long to test the theory that circles are far less likely to result in deep hooking, so my next session will concentrate on tightening down at first indication to test that the hook will still engage in most instances, at least as well as trebles that are struck early).

RNLI Shoreline Member

Member of the Angling Trust

Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm from the two treble camp when bait fishing but I'm also a big advocate of instant striking and better unhooking techniques. That is without question. I understand as much as any piker what damage a set of swallowed trebles can do. If people learn to instant strike, there is a lesser chance of gut-hooking pike and the trebles might find a solid hold in the pike's mouth-plates. I say might because I struck and lost 4 or 5 fish, while landing only 2. I think that ratio, although poor, is OK from the pike's point of view. No harm done.

 

This the line that I've taken for a couple of decades Andy.

 

But whereas I'm happy with my current practice around using trebles, it's clear to me that education, though reaching many, isn't working well enough.

 

And although I'm happy to lose a few fish which might be down to striking 'too early', I still see anglers obviously schooled in the 'count to 10' school, who do not then have the skills to deal properly with the resultant deep-hooking that occurs.

 

Hopefully circle hooks will prove an alternative that is better (though I'm not that naive in thinking that sticking hooks in pike of any kind, and fighting them to the bank, is ever going to be entirely risk free).

 

If it diminshes the risks to pike by (say) as little as 5%, or any degree, whilst still being as effective as using a pair of trebles on a snap-tackle, then I will happily adopt them.

Edited by Leon Roskilly

RNLI Shoreline Member

Member of the Angling Trust

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...