should the forces pull out of Iraq

[Yogi]

P.S. Check out the word 'condone' in the dictionary!

 

Ok checking now, lets have a look.

 

Is it the wrong time of the month for you or something.

 

Yogi.

 

What page is condone on again.

[Yogi]

Actually I think everyone here can see EXACTLY what your stance on anyone who isn't British is....even if they are in their OWN country.

 

Thats not entirely true as I have several foreign friends AND even relatives. So it just goes to show that its true what people say about you - your full of bullsh!t.

 

However, despite what everybody says about you - I think your a darn good bloke. You keep my morale up.

 

Yogi.

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

Thats not entirely true as I have several foreign friends AND even relatives. So it just goes to show that its true what people say about you - your full of bullsh!t.

 

However, despite what everybody says about you - I think your a darn good bloke. You keep my morale up.

 

Yogi.

 

LOL, fair do's!!

 

Nothing like lack of good fishing weather to start us on the indoor fishing.

[Yogi]

LOL, fair do's!!

 

Nothing like lack of good fishing weather to start us on the indoor fishing.

 

LOL - well your biting well.

 

Happy New Year to you and your family.

 

Yogi.

[Guest kingfisher]

Listenin to you pair goin on makes me smile.

 

Talk about indoor fishin?

 

I'd go for bigguns not tidders like you 2.

 

:D

[chesters1]

must be a new batch of steroids in

[Dan]

Yes we should get out but the question is when! if you mean now, the answer is no! if you mean later then yes!!

[Peter]

We had no business in Iraq in the first place! Agreed Sadam was not a nice man but there are plenty of equally unpleasant rulers who are not sitting on large oil reserves and are left to carry on doing things in their own way. As far as I can tell Iraq was a western creation formed by someone drawing straight lines on a map and saying everyone can and should live together. From what I have seen on the news, there appear to be at least 3 distinct groups, each of whom wants top place and all the perks for their group. The only way these places seem to hold together is when there is a strong ruthless leader who subdues all opposition. Agreed large numbers of people are killed or repressed so he remains top of the heap but was the death toll any greater than the current tit for tat killing as each group strives to gain the top place? Yugoslavia was a similar creation where several groups were held together by one man 'TITO' after he died, civil war and ethnic cleansing take place as the different groups fight for top place. Once again the poor military has a thankless task although if my memory serves me right, the west was not responsible for starting this conflict and is only there as 'piggy in the middle' to keep the different groups apart. To digress, why are we in Afganistan? The Russians with all their resources could not subdue that country, why should we think that we can. Britain may have ruled India in the past and fought against the Afgan people. We did not beat them! To quote a line from a Pete Seeger song refering to Vietnam ** If a man will fight for his own land, he's got the strength of ten **.

We will eventually have to withdraw from these countries and the people who live there know it. In the short term it may have some advantage to help the western forces but eventually they will have to face their fellow countrymen who may not feel too kindly disposed to those who helped the enemy, ie the west.

[Dan]

We had no business in Iraq in the first place! Agreed Saddam was not a nice man but there are plenty of equally unpleasant rulers who are not sitting on large oil reserves and are left to carry on doing things in their own way. As far as I can tell Iraq was a western creation formed by someone drawing straight lines on a map and saying everyone can and should live together. From what I have seen on the news, there appear to be at least 3 distinct groups, each of whom wants top place and all the perks for their group. The only way these places seem to hold together is when there is a strong ruthless leader who subdues all opposition. Agreed large numbers of people are killed or repressed so he remains top of the heap but was the death toll any greater than the current tit for tat killing as each group strives to gain the top place? Yugoslavia was a similar creation where several groups were held together by one man 'TITO' after he died, civil war and ethnic cleansing take place as the different groups fight for top place. Once again the poor military has a thankless task although if my memory serves me right, the west was not responsible for starting this conflict and is only there as 'piggy in the middle' to keep the different groups apart. To digress, why are we in Afghanistan? The Russians with all their resources could not subdue that country, why should we think that we can. Britain may have ruled India in the past and fought against the Afghan people. We did not beat them! To quote a line from a Pete Seeger song referring to Vietnam ** If a man will fight for his own land, he's got the strength of ten **.

We will eventually have to withdraw from these countries and the people who live there know it. In the short term it may have some advantage to help the western forces but eventually they will have to face their fellow countrymen who may not feel too kindly disposed to those who helped the enemy, ie the west.

 

 

A couple of points Peter, most modern countries have had their boundaries defined by recent conflict. There are few countries that are ethnically or religiously unmixed, so that is in my view inevitable, however we have done a much better job in Afghanistan than the Russians ever managed and we are not necessarily fighting the Afghans which would be a much different story. Its a very different situation there and I don't think we should confuse Afghanistan with Iraq nor with the lack of action we are taking in Africa. This Gov promised ethical foreign policy, Ive seen little of it from day 1. To my mind it was not so much the invasion that was the problem but the complete lack of planning or resource to win the peace in part because of the way the invasion was justified, we are reaping what we sowed.

 

Dan (completely with the benefit of hindsight!)

[kleinboet]

Ethics?????????????? With this government?????????????? I doubt if they can spell it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!