Question . . . ?

[Guest CJS2]

A quote from part of my reply to Snatchers 'I cant believe I did that';

 

"Can I pose a question, 'manual' why the obsession with manual among photographers? Especially with the high efficiency of modern technology within our cameras and occasionally PhotoShop can come to the rescue'. Because of the type of photography I seem to do, its so often a chance shot, nothing but 'Auto and Auto P' has a chance. One does play a little, shooting into bright sun, sand, white/bright images or snow, what snow

 

Even so, the old point the camera at a 'neutral colour' trick, path, water, fence, half press the the shutter, re compose and press home, so often works. Best with the DSLR! not sure all compacts can be set up for it? Bracketing, auto P, I find works 99% of the time. "

 

OK, I posted the question a few days ago, had a bit of time to mull it over, I think the question needs more serious consideration, its a bit raw. I went back in in my mind to the 70's/80's, no such thing as auto cameras, a few questionable attempts at linking to a built in light meter, remember the 'Zenith E'? I still have the bad back!

 

Any photographer worth his salt had a light meter strung around his neck, 'Weston', think they were one of the better offerings? Come forward to the present. Basic auto in modern cameras is a light meter that sets the camera for you, it does a lot more, but essentially we pay a lot of £££ for the function, then we want to 'go manual'??? Cameras of the bygone era were never truly manual? preselector perhaps, They were set to readings taken from a light meter, a photographic abacus!

 

One wonders, if 'modern manual' would be better defined as 'an occasional helping hand', interference with the camera. It never ceases to amaze me how well modern units cope with light situations that required some very careful set ups in by gone days. My camera is set deliberately by Nikon to slightly under expose, they are expecting the user to use PS anyway. I have set the aperture menu to + f1/3 ISO 200, this gives me, with every thing else set on auto, an acceptable 'out of the camera Image'. I have paid 'much wampum'!!! for my 'all singing, all dancing' modern D'SLR, so I want it to do its job, earn its corn!

 

Things like, filters, colour balance, white balance, ISO, aperture, shutter, of course lots more, can all be adjusted manually, but, why? On occasions yes, a filter can a big help when conditions are ???? Bracketing is so often an answer yet ignored, it would save many a bad day! Want a fast shutter, 'Auto P', small aperture, again 'auto P'. So often basics can be accommodated within the 'Auto P' program, or of course, choose one of the preset programs, you paid for it, you owe it to yourself, let the camera do the work. Remember the good old days, photographers relied on the light meter, not manual guess work!

 

Trying to do it with out any form of 'LM' is the hard way, bit 'hair shirt'? Answer to my question, ". . . The golden days of the Zenith and Nikons, built like tanks, consistency was a light meter. Some film was deliberately made to have a very wide ISO range, and there were some real wizards in the dark rooms saving badly exposed photos" We've never had it so good, long live 'Auto P'

 

Not having a go at any one, its simply how my thoughts have progressed. Manual for manuals sake is fine, but a few 'Auto' banker shots is a good back up, unless one is supremely confident? Then of course there is the 'what happens if I do this' approach, real wing and a prayer stuff, for the birds that, need time and experience?

 

Be interesting to see how others view 'Auto or not to Auto is that the question . . . ' ? ? ? ?

 

ET's OPO

[Cameraman]

Never gave the subject much thought, when I moved from film to digital I carried on using what I was comfortable with. I shoot mainliy in AV. Using AV you can increase/decrease shutter speed by changing apperture. Its something I've always done. I now use the ISO settings and white balance and think they are essential items. Increasing ISO can alter the AV. I also stop up and down more now. Basically I think I just experiment a little nore now and delete what I don't like. But surley this is the advantage and draw over film.

 

I'll take a few in auto and compare, see if I can do better than camera - may be interesting

[Guest CJS2]

I'll take a few in auto and compare, see if I can do better than camera - may be interesting

 

That the whole point mate, I had not thought about it much until the last few days, and then those halcyon days of light meters and waiting for the pictures to come back from processing .

 

Camera better than you? different perhaps? Nikon, according to what I read in the media seem to expect the D70 and up user to go the 'PS' route, yet look at a D50, the factory settings are geared to 'straight from camera'.

 

I think the answer is a few Auto shots, then do your own thing? Have a look at 'Auto P' if you use a D'SLR, wind the wheel and the shutter/aperture change before your eye in the view finder.

 

ET's OPO

Edited January 10, 2007 by CJS2

[Gillies]

I could never use any of the auto modes .... as good as they are said to be, I prefer having full control over my shots - so I know what Im going to get, however I do use 'P' mode for people shots often where background blur (bokeh) is not to important, and just getting a nice in focus shot is ...for many indoor and outdoor candids using the flash gun (bouncing and flash filling) and the ISO set at the desirable level ... rarely find I need to go above ISO 400 on a Canon with a flash gun attached, and 95% of the time it 'P' mode will ensure I get a nice shot.

 

When shooting an event, or portraits ... Im always using Av mode so I can control the depth of field depending on the lens Im using, and get some nice background blur where needed - to emphasis the focus of the main subject in frame, and of course setting a suitable ISO level also to achieve this. Where movement is an issue I use Tv mode to ensure subjects in focus are not blurred ... depening on available light, I adjust the ISO and select a relevant shutter speed that will give me a nice shot in that available light.

 

For my landscape shots I use a mixture of Manual, Av and Tv, depending on available light and the kind of shot I want to get ... glancing at the Histogram every so often for my highlights, and adjusting the exposure compensation where needed. I can not even think of been without my Cokin ND Grads ... I smashed my ND8 the other week out in the middle of no where, I was on the phone asking a pal to pick me up a new one 5 mins after breaking it.

 

From my point of view - Auto modes are good for learning, or if your happy with using them for your photography then stick to them ... but if learning using a camera that has creative modes as you get a good grasp on the camera, or if you feel you want more control of your shots start getting to know Av, TV and Manual Modes .... and you will be shooting with more confidence. Oh - then there 'P' mode somewhere in between

 

Thats my 2 pence worth.

 

Gillies

Edited January 11, 2007 by Gillies

[Steve Randles]

For me, the camera is there to be used and use it I do to its full potential or should I say as far as my knowledge allows me to. I advise everyone getting a canera with manual mode ability to get to grips with it for the same reasons I was advised to use it.

 

Getting to know what ISO, aperture and shutter speed do can be a huge mountain to climb for the inexpierienced photographer and no matter how many words are read there is no real replacement for hands on expierience...getting out there and making the mistakes and trying to work out what went wrong and how to correct it.

 

Using full manual you have to decide on the settings you use with only the in-built lightmeter and any knowledge or expierience you've picked up to take the shot. By all means use your other modes such as normal, landscape, portrait, snow or whatever they are alongside a shot taken in manual and compare the two. This approach gives you expierience with differing light conditions whilst being able to check the LCD screen after the shot and or the histogram to check exposure range, this you can analyse and if needed you can reshoot on the spot. You'll learn this way how the settings interact with each other and with more expierience how to fine tune them to suit certain circumstances such as the portrait shots with blurred backgrounds Gillies mentions above. In manual mode you'll discover how depth of field can be important and how to play with it to make your subjects stand out (Blurred background) or how to extend DOF throughout the scene to achieve acceptable focus such as a landscape shot.

 

This basic understanding will carry you on to using the TV and AV modes when the conditions are right for them, knowing why your using it and how to get the best from it, having also the backup that if the photos are not so good on screen you can revert back to manual or even the "P" mode. Versatility is the key here.

 

I generally use manual or av mode, but I do occasionally use sport mode, I'll give an example. Back in the summer in a mini heatwave I was walking the local river lokking for the swans and as I got to the river I saw some kids jumping in it. Switch of the dial into "Sport", zoom and focus and I caught one kid mid jump. Not a spectacular picture by any means but it did the job, if I had fiddled around too much changing settings I would have missed the shot. On the other hand when I am out shooting landscapes, I have all the time in the world to play with the settings and I do.

 

There you have it, use manual to get the "expierience" and/or knowledge to move on with, but use your scene modes to ensure your actually getting some photos.

 

Steve...

[Hellbelly]

I use manual on my point and shoot sony. Tracy has taken some pics at a party using Auto and I've looked at them and thought "thats way dark", then I've switched to manual and set ISO, F factor and shutter speed myself, and come up with a much better shot. I'm looking forward to getting into the nitty gritty of the DSLR very soon.

 

HB

[medwaygreen]

Hi CJS2,

 

Your post is so very interesting, Yes, why pay for it and not use it ?

 

Auto is great and allows shooters like me ( useless) to present a creditable photo, as i am becoming more aware of digital manipulation the fear of trying subsides, because as you say, if in doubt let the camera do the work, and work on the shot post time.

 

Fully manual on a digital camera does not make sense to me as i feel you are disregarding the technology available to you through the equipment, however i understand the passion of the committed to go this route.

 

I myself love to potter with my camera on auto take loads of shots and then review the effort on the laptop and if possible improve, its a great way to present something credible to a discerning audience.

 

This audience on AN are so appreciative of every one's efforts it's a joy to be here.

 

Regards.

[Chippy]

Generally speaking I always use AV mode however if I use flash I always use manual.

 

As HB briefly touched on, I find that using manual when using flash allows much greater control espcially if balancing ambient light levels with flash.

 

At the end of the day, even in manual mode we're still using the camera's internal meter for metering what the camera thinks is the correct exposure.

 

In AV mode I tend to take a test shot if the lighting is tricky and then use compensation according to the info gleened from the resulting histogram.

[Cameraman]

Histogram - Nows theres something I ought to be paying more attention to! I just never think to look at it. Used to use it a lot when I first bought the camera.

 

Mostly now I only review the pics much later, I've just started wearing glasses and find I still have to take them off to take pics, and then put them on to review. Just takes some getting used to I suppose.

[Guest CJS2]

Well thats got a few fingers flying over the key board Manual? a word that always gets hearts pumping in photographic circles? Most of the comments lead me to conclude, the word 'manual' to an amateur photographer is at best miss-used at worst, a myth and generally miss understood, especially by the newer snappers and those of us who just have not got that involved?

 

It would appear that 'aperture priority' (AV) is chosen, on the program dial, ISO and white balance is set, then a picture is taken leaving the camera to adjust shutter speed 'automatically'! Same applies were you at a spot or race meeting, fast shutter speed is required TV on the program dial 500th or 1000th of a second, tweak the ISO, 400? the camera automatic then balances the setting with an appropriate aperture?

 

The fun bit is when we choose 'M' 'manual' on the program dial, then what do you do? Well before you go to manual, set the camera to 'auto'!!! sample the light . . . take a picture, now you know where you should be looking to set the camera on manual? But on a DSLR the two basics, shutter and aperture (TV and AV) can all be don by selecting 'Auto P' and twiddling the command wheel with your thumb, whilst looking through the view finder and seeing the information there in . . .

 

So I come back to my original thinking, 'much wampum paid for all singing all dancing DSLR camera'. It ain't perfect, so set the aperture to +f1/3, takes care of standard photos. Want a nice portrait of the Misses . . . "yes dear", blurred background and all that, 150mm lens, Camera set to Auto P, turn the command wheel to select a large aperture, the camera will automatically select an appropriate shutter speed, crash, bang, wallop, . . . "what a picture, what a picture" ??? you are all to young to remember Tommy Steel in Half a Sixpence . . . whats a sixpence???

 

The word 'Manual' is rarly what the knowledgeable armature does, he does 'influence' the final result, control the effect he is looking for, but still needs (uses) input from the camera, a light meter or a sample shot. He will use multi shots on diferent settings, or the cameras version, 'bracketing'!

 

Its great fun getting the head around the basics of photography, its not 'Rocket Science'. You can have the best 'all singing, all dancing camera', the best lens, but if you dont develop the 'eye' for a good shot, you will still end up with 'snap shot' results. And that what I have got from this Forum, where to turn my eye, Sir David Baily I am not, but my photos please me now-a-days, and I get a lot of pleasure from the photos posted by others as well, thank you all

 

CJS2