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We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Scrap the planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy.


deanbmw

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What nuclear cars ? - that won't be popular

The problem is all down to the political process. Because a term of office lasts 4 years, no party has the balls to make a massive decision that will outlive them in case it loses them the next election. So we need better resourced public transport, railways that work, buses that travel where we need them to etc so that people can then make a choice. Because of previous short sighted policies we have eroded what we used to have and no government will cough up the billions required to rebuild it. Until they actually make public transport useable, and affordable would also be nice, people have no choice but to get in their cars.

 

Rob.

 

No your quite correct nuke cars would be a bit of a no no :rolleyes: I was thinking more in terms of main source of power supply.

 

One thing I have always pondered upon is whether people would actually use a good public service or not. Bus companies being independent are always looking for passengers to boost profits and on routes which don't pay they have to make cuts.

 

In general terms we have all become very independent , example, fifty years ago if you caught a bus for a hospital appointment if you had to arrive an hour early and wait an hour for the next bus home that was it, you just had to do it. Cars gave us all the opportunity to cut out all that waiting, arrive when needed and depart when we wanted to.

 

Over the years this type of living rightly or wrongly has become the norm and changing the way we live is a major task. My daughter works for a bank and is expecting a babe end of February, the bank encourage her to work for as long as possible fitting in doctors visits with work, unfortunately the best public transport will not full fill those type of requirements, so we are faced with a complete social structure change not just one individual making a choice.

 

 

.

Edited by Ken Davison South Wales

I fish, I catches a few, I lose a few, BUT I enjoys. Anglers Trust PM

 

eat.gif

 

http://www.petalsgardencenter.com

 

Petals Florist

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It's also worth remembering that public transport emits carbon dioxide too, and that the figures showing lower emissions from trains tend to compare full trains to part-loaded cars. There is transport industry spin going on. This report makes interesting reading:

 

A paper to the IMechE in July 2004 20 calculated the relative energy consumption of different transport modes and presented a calculation of the consumption of primary fuel (for convenience assumed to be oil) per seat over the route London to Edinburgh. The comparison was made between an Airbus A321, a VW Passat TDI and two hypothetical trains, running at 225 and 350 km/h respectively. The conclusions are summarised in the following graph:

 

carbon.jpg

 

This suggests that the primary fuel consumed per seat by a 225 km/h train is much the same as that used by an efficient modern car and at 350 km/h there is little to choose between a high speed train and a modern aircraft. In July 2004 the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport was asked a question

on the CO2 emissions of various modes of transport from London to Edinburgh. His answer is summarised below:

 

London to Edinburgh CO2 emissions per passenger - journey (kg)

Aviation 96.4

Rail (Class 91—modern high speed electric train) 11.9

Car 71.0

Coach 9.2

Why is there a discrepancy of about 6:1 between these two sets of data? Part of the reason is because the figures were based on cars with 1.56 occupants (31% full) while trains were a surprising 70% full. They also appears to have taken an average figure for the fuel efficiency of cars while the IMechE presentation specifically referred to an efficient modern diesel car. Finally, he gave figures for present day trains running at a maximum speed of 200 km/h rather than the high-speed trains running at 225 km/h. This difference between these sets of figures shows how easy it is to change a number of assumptions and radically alter the conclusions. The situation is further confused when you compare electrically hauled trains with diesel or petrol-fuelled cars.

 

Busy commuter routes do make sense, but intercity rail travel (and particularly high speed travel) can be worse than using your car, particularly if you have a two or more people in a fuel efficient car. Don't believe everything that the transport lobby tells you, there are vested interests on both sides.

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Busy commuter routes do make sense, but intercity rail travel (and particularly high speed travel) can be worse than using your car, particularly if you have a two or more people in a fuel efficient car. Don't believe everything that the transport lobby tells you, there are vested interests on both sides.

 

That is a very interesting piece of literature. I had always assumed that a half full bus was better than the equivalent 30 cars (or say 25 because a few people car share).

 

I assume there must be lots of contradictory data out there does anyone one else have any more info ?

 

I guess also though 1 bus causes far less congestion than the additive affect of 25 cars. So that would have the added bonus, in theory at least, of smoother running roads with the consequent less stop / start and less emissions from leaner burning engines.

 

Rob.

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human rights wouldnt allow them to do that. the EU would have great fun.

 

I think everyone here is missing the point, it all comes down to choice.

 

Your choice to live in the country

Your choice to drive a car

Your choice to have a job where you have to travel

Your choice to use public transport

 

As others have said, living in the country is not always an option. I live in a small town in a rural area. (mid Suffolk). I was a Police officer for 30 years. We bought a house in this town because that was where I was stationed at the time we were able to buy a place of our own. For those who do not know, the Police service has a habit of moving people about every two or three years. you then have a choice, you either continue to live in the same area and commute or you sell up and move to the new location, disrupting your childrens education and possibly your partners employment only to have to do the same thing again in a few years time. Public transport is not an option as buses tend to run from the major towns to the smaller towns and to get from one small town to another will usually mean going via the major town and changing to another bus. Buses also have the inconvenient habit of only being available during the working day or evening. If you happen to have a 'cross country' journey to start work at 6.00am or leave off at 2 or 3am, there is no chance in this county of using a bus.

I think this demolishes every point of the above quote.

1) I bought a house where I was working ie in the country.

2) no choice about driving a car as I could not continue with a job I was unable to reach. (commuting 20 miles each way on foot or pedal cycle is not a practical option)

3) When I took the job I was not travelling. moving to a new town frequently is not practical or financially viable.

4 for shift work public transport is not an option.

I don't know where Ricksteruk lives or the hours he works but it does not appear to be the same world most of us inhabit.

 

As to charges of £1.30 per mile or any other stupid ideas that big brother is dreaming up, I run a one van haulage/courier business, those figures are far higher than I charge per mile and I have to pay for my vehicle, fuel and try to eat as well. In December I covered about 2000 miles including private mileage, are they suggesting that I should also pay £2300 to the government out of earning of approx one quarter of the charges. The country will come to a stop as no one will be able to afford to work. At that rate I would have lost £1700 after paying to run a van without actually buying the vehicle in the first place

Steam rules

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when i was on the dole i was "required" to attend a "new deal" course .

you can amagine after i had gone through the bus/train timetables the look on their faces when i got out the timetables and told them i didnt have a problem going but i would have to leave basingstoke 10 minutes before i arrived at basingstoke if i went by bus and train to catch the last bus from the train station home.

and if i went by bus alone i would have to leave basingstoke before i left home to get the last bus home!

 

i certainly didnt tell them i had my own transport because i cannot use the car because as a disabled vehicle its for the benefit of my mrs not mine to use for me.they (the dole employee ) would has sure as night turns to day insisted i use it despite the very government that employing them saying the contrary ,they ofcourse just want you off their books and ofcourse their hair.

 

they still made me go so when i arrived (11.30 ish) i signed in and told them i had to run to get the train home ,i missed the last bus ofcourse and walked the 3.5 miles home ,they didnt ask again when i pointed out the maximum travelling time i could be forced to take was 1.5 hrs (in a car fine) using public transport over 8 hrs.

 

the highly thought of "responce vehicle" much loved by the council (and the excuse for no longer funding a real bus) refuses to come before 9am and after 4pm and not at all for 1 passenger ,ok for a group of pentioners of to sainsburies not caring how long it takes (it goes through all the villages picking up pre "booked" passengers )so long as its ok with the vehicle owners schedule but useless for anything else.

rather than coming when the passenger wants (its intended use) the passenger has to go/return when its suits the company so it maximises the passengers

Edited by chesters1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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1.30 per mile you gotta be chockin! im a learner car driver and when if i get my astra on the road ill be doing at least 100 miles a week if not more, 100 quid a week ! 400 a month, 4,800 a year! on top of insurance and fuel costs. id be looking at 6 or 7 thousand a year, thats more than half of what i earn in a year, then i got my mother and nephew to support financially and a car for me would ease on a lot of things like getting my nephew to school on the opposite side of glasgow where he takes a 1 hour bus journey with my mother who lets face it is not getting any younger.

 

and do will they do away with road tax all together if not thats another 170+ a month

 

only people on like £50,000 a year will beable to afford to drive, driving is starting to become a needed thing for my life the more life goes on.

 

and as for elderly who need a mobility car, how on earth are they going to afford to pay thousands of pounds per year where as we the working class could probably hardly pay it.

Edited by Andy_1984

Owner of Tacklesack.co.uk


Moderator at The-Pikers-Pit.co.uk

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The idea of tracking every vehicle at all times is sinister and wrong.

Surely if you have nothing to fear you have nothing to hide!

 

In France they have done away with the road tax and you pay a tax on petrol and a toll if you want to use the autoroute. Seems fair to me.

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

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Without wishing to be rude I think your missing the point, some people have to live in the country, they put the bacon, eggs and milk on your table in the morning, for the vegies they grow your carrots and spuds, 90% of water supplies are very remote, some people think life revolves around city slickers, but if the others laid down tools you would also be up to your neck in sh*t.

Spot on Ken. I have loads of relatives who work and live in the country, funnily enough all work in either agriculture or for the water. :thumbs: :thumbs:

 

rickerstuck is obviously one of these townies who has no idea of rural affairs. :wallbash:

Edited by corydoras

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

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Perhaps you're young, or perhaps you've been lucky, but life tends to throw people's plans to live near to where they work into disarray. Jobs aren't for life, often both partners need to work, and uprooting children from a good school is not often in their best interests. If one partner loses his job and can't get another locally, one of them will need to travel. The "choice" argument always looks somewhere between naive and smug to me. I'm not having a go, but you need to appreciate that people's circumstances differ.

 

The big issue around "choice" that you have to consider is that nobody "chooses" to sit in a traffic jam. It's the least worst of the options they have, and they aren't doing it for fun or out of spite. They're just ordinary taxpaying people trying to get to work to earn a crust.

 

As far as reducing congestion and CO2 emissions goes, personally, I think a significant chunk of workers could do their jobs perfectly well from home. We need a change in management culture in Britain which would allow more people to do so. Significant tax breaks for homeworkers and their employers would be a good start.

Hear, hear!

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

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not got severe asthma due to emissions from cars, airlines, and everything else as there will be no trees to help clean the air.

Why do you assume that athma is caused by air pollution? Countries with some of the highest air pollution levels in the world like China, India and Eastern Europe have much lower rates of athsma than we in the west. One hypothesis is that our kids live in homes that are to clean and our children don't have very good immune systems as a result.

 

Check out these links for much more detail, citations etc.

 

http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2006/07/f...omes_bad_al.php

 

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi...ll/?cookieSet=1

 

BTW I realise that you are environmentall aware, and that you have the best of intentions. I also have children and want the best environment for them and for my grandchildren, should I be lucky enough to have any. I really don't think that 'Planet Earh' is in danger though. The earth has been around for about 4.5 billion years, we humans have only been around for perhaps 1,000,000 years. By comparison the dinosaurs were around for at least 60 million years. The first dinosaurs were fossils long before the last dinosaur turned up its heels. I have a hunch that we won't be as successful as the dinosaurs and when we are gone the earth will just carry on without us just fine.

 

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/life/mg19225731.100

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

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