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An Alliance Between Anglers And Commercials?


stavey

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Ian Burrett:

An  issue i am trying to get my head round, concerns the whole black market thing that Autumn keeps reminding us off.

 

If it was universally acknowledged that the Black market was huge, why did the Defra and therefore the government refuse to police it. Is it that Defra officials themselves didn't believe in the quota system, or has the government allowed it to go on. Has the government deliberatley gambled with our fish resources to save them paying out compensation.

 

It is only EU ruling that has made Defra get their act together.

IME mainly cock-up in that the quota system was introduced without any thought for how it was to be enforced.

 

DAFS were totally unprepared, and at the time stretched anyway; the pelagic fishery at Ullapool used to suck in a huge number of staff back then. Given that no extra fishery officers or resources were put in alongside the quotas, that a reorganisation took place to save money; which meant the closure of fishery offices up and down the coast, the abuse was a racing certainty :( - a similar thing happened with Customs and Excise as far as i understand?

 

Many DAFS staff could see exactly what was going to happen but there was not a lot they could do to stop it.

 

FWIW the fishermen stuck to the quotas for years despite that lack of enforcement; nobody disagreed with the need to curb the level of fishing when they were introduced. As quotas were cut to the point the boats could not survive there was only one thing that was ever going to happen.

 

BTW Ken, i think your wrong to assume that blackfish landings have been low. I have no idea what the true level has been, and would take the oft quoted "80% of all fishermen bust quotas" comments with a big pinch of salt, but it would not surprise me if they have been huge.

 

[ 29. September 2005, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Jaffa ]

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Old Man of the Sea,

"I do not believe this is a subject for abstention."

 

I would normally abstain from the more political issues or threads as I rarely have sufficient information to post in an authoratitive manner. I tend to fish more than worry too much about the politics. My reason for posting in this case may well be off base but I wonder. Your own posts are normally concise and well thought out. They make comments, address issues and invite information on a variety of issues. What they rarely do is give out your information. By that I do not mean personal information I refer to your own views. Above you say One possibility: "I believe you have a National Federation of Sea Anglers." Given the concise and knowledgable nature of your posts I would have thought you would know for a fact that a NFSA exists.

 

"So, come on people, negative or positive, let’s be knowing about it. I do not believe this is a subject for abstention." Just another innocent request for input or additional information for the diary or data bank. I`ve never denied being a cynic and if I am being over cynical I apologise in advance but now and again you have to wonder.

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ColinW:

 

ColinW:

Is this a possibility? Benifits for?and against? your answers please warts and all.

I'm sorry if this seems a negative attitude but I am old enough to remember when I COULD catch proper sized cod off the shore and, whatever the apologists and excuse makers on here might say, the reason I can't catch them any more is ENTIRELY down to the trawlermen. There may be a raft of stupid rules for them to follow but at the end of the day it is them who shovel a pile of dead codling overboard and then shoot the net back in the same place knowing they'll catch a load more, as long as they get a few boxes of something they can sell.
To blame everything on fishing is nonsense IMO. Yes there are a lot of problems with fishing but environmental change is also a huge factor. This from a talk by a marine scientist at the recent Aberdeenconference

 

quote:


Meanwhile on the effects of global warming on cod stocks,Ken Drinkwater of the Institute of Marine Research in Bergen, Norway said future CO2-induced climate change scenarios from Global Circulation Models (GCMs) indicate increasing air temperatures, with the greatest warming in the Arctic and Subarctic. Changes to the wind fields and precipitation patterns are also suggested. These will lead to changes in the temperature and salinity properties of the ocean, as well as the vertical stratification and circulation patterns. Cod stocks in the Celtic and Irish Seas are expected to disappear while those in the southern North Sea and Georges Bank will decline. Cod will likely spread northward along the coasts of Greenland and Labrador, occupy larger areas of the Barents Sea and may even extend onto some of the continental shelves of the Arctic Ocean. Growth rates of many of the stocks will increase with increasing temperatures
Whats the difference between your statement and the few commercials that state fishing has had NO effect on fish stocks?

 

Conditions in our seas do change, and have changed before; sometimes it suits the cod family (as in the “Gadoid explosion" of the 50's and 60's) , other times it seems to suit the herring more. That said, fishing has stripped away the reservoir of bigger fish that you would hope to recolonise as conditions shift. I'd guess that sooner or later anglers will also need to face up to their current role in helping strip out the last of these big mature fish.

 

BTW, if you want good cod fishing head to the east coast of Scotland; you'll be in the home of most of the UK's commercial catching power, but funnily enough the shore fishing is very good provided the weather plays ball :)

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stavey:

Autumn, i was going to ask if the inshore/inshore men as brian puts it were causing the problem but as its the larger pair trawlers your main beef is with then thats were you have to work on. sounds to me you could have some allies in the commercial sector that could help you object to these big trawlers working close in. possibilities there" find a way of contacted these inshore/inshore boys and see what they have to say..........

Stavey you would have thought so wouldnt you, but this really amazes me. No matter how many times potters, liners netters etc have their gear towed away they still see no problem. The livlihoods of these men are also being ruined by the lack of fish. As I say there are hardly any gillnetters anymore, The long liners struggle to make ends meet and the potters will soon see their livlihoods threatened when the trawler owners diversify into shellfish on a huge scale. But no they dont see it. All Fishermen stand united against DEFRA and the eu who are seen as the devil. Youll never hear a cobble owner, potter, liner complain openly about Trawlers.
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Quote from Jaffa

 

BTW, if you want good cod fishing head to the east coast of Scotland; you'll be in the home of most of the UK's commercial catching power

 

Hi Jaffa

 

It might be the home of most of the commercial fleet but they aren't fishing anywhere near Scotland.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/flash/0,5860,835358,00.html

 

It's also Scottish pair trawlers that are devestating the mature Bass stocks of the Channel Islands.

 

Why would they bother if the local fishing was so good?

www.ssacn.org

 

www.tagsharks.com

 

www.onyermarks.co.uk

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quote:


Originally posted by stan4massey:

[Old Man of the Sea], you say "I believe you have a National Federation of Sea Anglers." Given the concise and knowledgable nature of your posts I would have thought you would know for a fact that a NFSA exists.

 

Hi, Stan! You may be crediting me with being cleverer than I am!

 

I am interested in all aspects of the sea. My saying, 'I believe...' was just a figure of speech, really. I do tend to speak carefully (hesitantly?) like that when talking with people I don't know personally.

--------------------------------------------------

"So, come on people, negative or positive, let’s be knowing about it. I do not believe this is a subject for abstention." Just another innocent request for input or additional information for the diary or data bank. I`ve never denied being a cynic and if I am being over cynical I apologise in advance but now and again you have to wonder. [/QB]


I'm not sure what you mean by 'the diary or data bank'. What were you wondering? I am intrigued. But yes, it was just another innocent request for input.

 

However, I do wish that I were a young student doing a thesis on this, knowing what I know now about life! (Actually, come to that, I'd be happy just to be young!)

 

Over to you!

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The local shore angling is good Ian: I can only tell it as i find it.

 

I must be missing something with that Guardian link though; where does it show the Scots fleets working? If its out in the middle of the north sea then thats where most of them have always worked.

 

As for "devasating" the mature Bass stocks of the channel; i thought Bass stocks were on the increase and only a dozen Scots boats were down there? Presumably quotas in the north sea have driven them all the way down there?

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Ken Davison South Wales:

I don't think the black market issue is wide spread amongst commercials. The operation would have to be large enough to justify the risk of getting caught.

How certain of that are you Ken???? Where do you get your information from. There have been some court cases alraedy, there will be more that show the scale of it. Although not proven guilty or otherwise some ports have boats with charges against them, some ports have the majority of the trawling fleet on charges. As Jaffa says - Wouldnt surprise me if this was a huge problem.

 

[ 29. September 2005, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: @AUTUMN@ ]

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Stavey you would have thought so wouldnt you, but this really amazes me. No matter how many times potters, liners netters etc have their gear towed away they still see no problem. The livlihoods of these men are also being ruined by the lack of fish. As I say there are hardly any gillnetters anymore, The long liners struggle to make ends meet and the potters will soon see their livlihoods threatened when the trawler owners diversify into shellfish on a huge scale. But no they dont see it. All Fishermen stand united against DEFRA and the eu who are seen as the devil. Youll never hear a cobble owner, potter, liner complain openly about Trawlers.

 

Well i am sorry to hear that autumn i was hoping there may be some who would stand up as an individual to anyone no matter who's fishermens union sea anglers union or tom cobbly and alls union that they belong to who are threatening there living or cherished pastime its bizare there must be more to it.

 

I would not make any excuses even if my best sea angling buddy was caught selling his bass to the local restaurant, if he got done i would say, you should no better serves you right.

I Fish For Sport Not Me Belly

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Old Man of the Sea,

 

fair enough, I accept that your intentions are sincere. There are one or two (to be exact one) who does keep a diary of everything that is said or done on a trip or on his boat and then maintains that diary ? data bank ? whatever you want to call it, for future use. Trust and actually accept that you are not like this dingbatt.

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