An Alliance Between Anglers And Commercials?

[Orca]

My opinion, for what its worth (usually not a lot)is a rather negative one, given that the Commercials and Pleasure anglers have two totally different goals to their fishing i.e one to make money and the other for pure pleasure it seems that we would be expecting too much for them to be able to get round a table and actually agree on something I honestly believe that commercials see us doing nothing more than playing with their livelihood. I get the impression that the commercials think that Anglers are stealing their income, although the majority of Sea Anglers are working towards catch and release. One is trying to keep the fish stocks up whereas the other is trying to profit from taking them.

[Jaffa]

Fair comment Orca but Im not sure its true that "Commercials and Pleasure anglers have two totally different goals to their fishing i.e one to make money and the other for pure pleasure" , or at least not in my area. Been out on local charter boats a few times this year and the only people returning most of the fish were me and another AN poster.

 

As for "I honestly believe that commercials see us doing nothing more than playing with their livelihood" , well that might be true for your area, but over here im not sure they know sea angling exists. Bringing sea angling to the fore may produce unexpected consequences. I was surprised to see commercial organisations trying to quantify what sea anglers took; guess thats the new game.

[Guest jay_con]

Does appear to be the new game. How much do sea anglers take, How days at sea do they get, what is their quota are becoming reguler questions. Is there any milage in that for them??? I dont really think so. Is their a proposal by DEFRA to stick regulations of sea angler??? Not that im aware of I feel they are grasping at straws, maybe an attempt to get sea anglers to keep quiet in fear that they may loose something too, Ive already been told here I shouldnt discuss certain things because I am guilty of other crimes (selling fish and using big treble hooks). Well to be honest the sport is f****** anyway so if they put quota's on us and only allowed us to fish so many days a year im not sure I would be paticulally bothered. I hardly ever feel like venturing out these days other than when the conditions are absolutely perfect. There are no fish to catch so wee too would probably strugle to catch our quota, and with the going so bad I dont feel like many days at sea anyway, or days by the sea should I say.

[Old Man of the Sea]

stan4massey:

Old Man of the Sea,

 

fair enough, I accept that your intentions are sincere.  There are one or two (to be exact one) who does keep a diary of everything that is said or done on a trip or on his boat and then maintains that diary ? data bank ? whatever you want to call it, for future use.  Trust and actually accept that you are not like this dingbatt.

Hi Stan,

Now I understand your comment. My reference to my day book must have got you thinking along those lines. Most skippers of a boat/ship keep a log. So, like many fishing skippers, I kept a daily fishing logbook, recording tide/moon phase, weather, catch type and quality of fish, best fishing day or night etc. I found, over the years, that returning to the same spot on the same moon phase, in similar weather conditions, etc, produced comparable fishing.

I was merely using the analogy of my daybook to answer Stavey’s question, with reference to the postings that Newt removed. I guess my sense of humour was a little too ‘in-house’ – sorry!

[Leon Roskilly]

Jaffa:

Bringing sea angling to the fore may produce unexpected consequences. I was surprised to see commercial organisations trying to quantify what sea anglers took; guess thats the new game.

Over in New Zealand they first decide how much stock can be taken.

 

They then set aside a quota for the traditional Moari fishing.

 

Then the work out how much is needed to satisfy the valuable Recreational Sea Angling sector.

 

Then the commercials are allocated what else can be spared!

 

Tight Lines - leon

 

[ 30. September 2005, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Leon Roskilly ]

[Guest johnfranz]

@AUTUMN@:

 

@AUTUMN@:

Autumn, i was going to ask if the inshore/inshore men as brian puts it were causing the problem but as its the larger pair trawlers your main beef is with then thats were you have to work on. sounds to me you could have some allies in the commercial sector that could help you object to these big trawlers working close in. possibilities there" find a way of contacted these inshore/inshore boys and see what they have to say..........

Stavey you would have thought so wouldnt you, but this really amazes me. No matter how many times potters, liners netters etc have their gear towed away they still see no problem. The livlihoods of these men are also being ruined by the lack of fish. As I say there are hardly any gillnetters anymore, The long liners struggle to make ends meet and the potters will soon see their livlihoods threatened when the trawler owners diversify into shellfish on a huge scale. But no they dont see it. All Fishermen stand united against DEFRA and the eu who are seen as the devil. Youll never hear a cobble owner, potter, liner complain openly about Trawlers.

O I see what your saying autumn. You’re a fair weathered fisherman, who will only go when and do things when it suits him.

Unfortunately we (commercials) as last night proved cannot have the luxuries of doing just that.

I know some recreational anglers who put in more effort when the going gets tuff and don’t have to spend hours on this forum moaning and blaming other people for the stated fact that they find it hard when there is not the fish that they once caught in abundance.

Maybe I should try and get them to come on and talk to stavy, as these I am sure are the anglers who you need to sit round a table with commercials to both talk and listen.

As for cobble men never slating of trawler men. If they do get towed away, then they know that the trawler man will not do it on purpose. You want to see the mess when a trawl comes up with static gear on it, secondly the trawlers will try and recover or compensate for lost gear, thirdly trawlers are always picking up static gear that at times was lost years ago and returning it to port. Gear that was lost through bad weather etc.

But the main reason they do not moan autumn is because at the end of the day a lot of them have experienced trawling and they all go to sea to make a living.

[stavey]

Maybe I should try and get them to come on and talk to stavy, as these I am sure are the anglers who you need to sit round a table with commercials to both talk and listen

 

That is a good idea binatone, i would be very interested to hear what they have to say.

[Guest jay_con]

Not quite sure of your fair weather comment Binatone. When I say I now choose to fish when the weather is right I mean when the weather is possibly at its worst. Big northerly, easterly seas, coloured water strong winds etc. Being quite honest Binatone When you say you know of anglers who try a little harder when the going gets tough I dont think many of them will try much harder than myself. Over the past 10 years I would guess I have fished on the rocks as much as if not more than any rock angler in these parts. When the weather is right Im out there. I will have fished places that you and many others dont even know exist. I spend many many hours collecting bait, Many late nights digging the big spring tides of february and march at 2 and 3 in the morning. When it comes to fishing m8 not many will try as hard, and ill go as far as to say on my day I could hold me own with the best of them.

 

Nice try Binatone. Fair weather anglers??? Not us North east rock anglers m8. You stick to what you know which seems to be catching kelp on robin hoods bay sea wall.

 

As for moaning on this forum. I dont see it like that. Im just adding some truth to the bull that seems to spout out of your mouth every time you speak.

[Old Man of the Sea]

Hi Leon,

I refer to your quote: "Over in New Zealand they first decide how much stock can be taken. They then set aside a quota for the traditional Moari fishing.

Then the work out how much is needed to satisfy the valuable Recreational Sea Angling sector. Then the commercials are allocated what else can be spared!"

 

The New Zealand commercial fishing industry, and the large amounts of money made from fish exports, is very important to the NZ economy. It contributes $NZ3 billion annually to their gross domestic product, and is an industry which employs 30,000 people – in a country with a total population which is approximately half that of London. This result can hardly be obtained from the allocation of natural resources which “can be spared” only after the anglers have had their share!

 

I realise we get our information from different sources. With regard to commercial fishing, mine comes mostly from personal experience. I also have a large network of friends in the industry who I trust and rely on to give me accurate information. And I have never been afraid to ask if I don’t know something!

 

My source in NZ is a man I went to sea with many years ago. He married a NZ girl, emigrated, and became a commercial fisherman there. He did very well, retired in his mid-fifties, and bought a small charter boat to enable him to stay at sea. (We old salts find it hard to leave the sea.) He visits “the old country” every two or three years and stays with us for a while - and guess what we talk about? My point is that he has experience with both commercial fishing and angling in New Zealand.

 

My friend tells a different story to yours. He says the Maori traditional and commercial fishing interests are considered first and foremost. Secondly, all other commercial interests are taken into account. Finally, the recreational sea angling sector is considered.

 

Both commercial fishermen and anglers are on a quota system. An angler’s quota is in the form of a bag limit. Strangely enough, the anglers break the quota far more often than the commercial fishermen do. There is a program on Sky TV about it - I think it is called “Coast Watch”. It shows NZ fisheries officers doing their job, and is mostly about stopping and prosecuting anglers and divers taking more than their bag limit. I’m told this programme is on prime time TV in NZ, and it seems to me that if this is true, it is excellent propaganda and must stop many people from taking more than their entitlement.

 

According to my friend, NZ has a very well-run fishery, where everyone gets a good share. He says it is not perfect, but is getting better all the time. He puts this down to the fact that the NZ Fisheries department takes notice of, and works closely with, all parties involved in the fishery. So maybe that is a lesson from which we can learn?

 

I realize that NZ is far better off than we are, because of their geographical location. They have a 200 mile limit and don’t have the inconvenience of the close proximity of other countries - with their dominant and unfair fishing policies - as we do. But maybe some parallels can be drawn?

 

Over to you!

[Guest johnfranz]

stavey:

Maybe I should try and get them to come on and talk to stavy, as these I am sure are the anglers who you need to sit round a table with commercials to both talk and listen

 

That is a good idea binatone, i would be very interested to hear what they have to say.

Now now autumn lets not go down that road.

If only fish where as easy to catch and land as you are, then none of us that use this forum would have any problem in catching them.

Stavey. There’s a lad who I mentioned earlier, I have mentioned this forum and the thread you have raised to him.

He said that when he gets the time, he will look it up and if he thinks that he can make a worthy contribution then he will.

I can assure you this lad puts a dam sight more effort into his recreational hobby and regardless of what autumn says there is know won that catches more fish that he does.

He often spends more time at sea than a lot of commercial fishermen do.

He is widely known and respected among commercial fishermen along the Yorkshire coast. Unfortunately some of the places that autumn says that he fishes are inaccessible to him as he is paralysed from the waste down.

He loves his angling in a way that anybody who has had the pleasure in meeting him will agree is definitely second to none.

Let just hope that one day he does come on this forum as I don’t think that you could have a better and more honest mediator if you tried.

Forget the wheelchair just listen to the knowledge and enthusiasm that this lad has and who knows what could be accomplished.

This one should be easy for you to work out autumn. So ill save you the trouble. His name is Andrew straw and unlike me lives in robin hoods bay north York’s.