winter pond fishing and how to avoid carp

[Steve Walker]

Steve, I keep considering targeting perch on my local club's carp puddles. I've had the odd perch of a pound or so from them having a quick chuck with a bar spoon while really fishing the adjacent lake but have never really had a serious go. Any more pointers for perching in puddles?

[gozzer]

I'm sorry if I seem to be going off topic, but, I googled as Steve suggested, and the only positives I could find were, carp are a good food fish (in certain parts of the world), and a good source of income (for some) here. I couldn't find any specific info' on the effects on the weight and fry survival rates of other species.

It just affirms my first thought, that we are creating problems for the future.

 

 

John

[Squiffy]

My Local Carp Syndicate has 2 species.

 

Carp and Perch

 

Lots of Big Perch in there... No Little Carp!

[Steve Burke]

Steve, I keep considering targeting perch on my local club's carp puddles. I've had the odd perch of a pound or so from them having a quick chuck with a bar spoon while really fishing the adjacent lake but have never really had a serious go. Any more pointers for perching in puddles?

 

See http://anglers-net.co.uk/authors/steve01.htm

 

Many thanks to the link to the Brian Moss article, one I hadn't read. I found the conclusions very interesting. Rather than the bottom being stirred up by such species, it appears that these waters become coloured because the fish have lowered the number of zooplankton leading to an increase in algae.

[Steve Walker]

It just affirms my first thought, that we are creating problems for the future.

 

On the plus side, these artificially overstocked pasty fisheries are unsustainable. Left to their own devices they will rebalance, so should the fashion for doing this ever pass they should gradually return to a more traditional assemblage of species and year classes. After all, there have been great mixed fisheries containing some carp since they were first introduced, it's only the hordes of small hungry fish that create problems.

 

Fly in the ointment might be climate change, since the real problems with carp seem to be in warmer climates.

[Steve Walker]

See http://anglers-net.co.uk/authors/steve01.htm

 

Perfect, thanks!

 

Many thanks to the link to the Brian Moss article, one I hadn't read. I found the conclusions very interesting. Rather than the bottom being stirred up by such species, it appears that these waters become coloured because the fish have lowered the number of zooplankton leading to an increase in algae.

 

Yes. Note though that it says roach, tench, bream and carp "of zooplanktivorous size". Without downloading the whole article. I'd guess that means small fish, maybe 1+/2+ carp. I would guess that benthic invertebrates make up an increasing part of the diet of larger fish, and so the effects of rooting on the bottom might be more significant, both in terms of increasing turbidity and releasing phosphate by exposure of sediments to oxygen.

[Steve Burke]

Yes. Note though that it says roach, tench, bream and carp "of zooplanktivorous size". Without downloading the whole article. I'd guess that means small fish, maybe 1+/2+ carp. I would guess that benthic invertebrates make up an increasing part of the diet of larger fish, and so the effects of rooting on the bottom might be more significant, both in terms of increasing turbidity and releasing phosphate by exposure of sediments to oxygen.

 

Good point! Many thanks.

[Steve Walker]

I've just checked my club's rules for the carp puddles, and it might be a bit difficult. No livebaiting, no hooks larger than #12, barbless or microbarb only. I think catching silvers for deadbaits would also be a lynching offence. In fact, I suspect that doing anything that doesn't look like vanilla match style angling might arouse the objections of the bailiff.

[John Weddup]

Thanks for help

 

Much as I thought really a difficult task.

 

The hemp option is well worth a go and very slow drop style might work.

 

The trouble with this water is the carp generally range from 5 to 15lbs so are rather difficult to handle on roach gear. The smaller ones we land but they disturb the swim and take a while to land. This means you are not feeding little and often which does not help the roach tactics. Mind you they have probably all gone, bullied out by then.

 

We do correctly balance our tackle, something I think is essential when carp come along.

 

I don't mean heavy line and large elastic on pole i mean balanced and a light wire hook such as 511 or series2. When a large carp is to heavy and playfull the hook straightens and away he goes with no tackle attached. Straighten hook and back to the roach.

 

Maybe this cold snap will slow the carp down.

 

thanks as always for replies

 

john

[gozzer]

Perfect, thanks!

Yes. Note though that it says roach, tench, bream and carp "of zooplanktivorous size". Without downloading the whole article. I'd guess that means small fish, maybe 1+/2+ carp. I would guess that benthic invertebrates make up an increasing part of the diet of larger fish, and so the effects of rooting on the bottom might be more significant, both in terms of increasing turbidity and releasing phosphate by exposure of sediments to oxygen.

 

This is an extract from 'Ingenta', (you have to pay for the complete survey results). It concerns the effects of adult carp on a water. In the US, but I think it would apply over here.

 

 

We examined the effects of adult common carp (Cyprinus carpio) on shallow aquatic ecosystems and compared the effects with those of a native benthic fish, channel catfish (Ictalurus punctatus). Experimental ponds contained enclosures (0.06 ha) with a low carp biomass (174 kg·ha–1), high carp biomass (476 kg·ha–1), high catfish biomass (416 kg·ha–1), and no fish. We measured abiotic factors (turbidity, suspended solids, total phosphorus), as well as effects on adjacent trophic levels (aquatic macrophytes, zooplankton, and aquatic macroinvertebrates) from July to September. Common carp was positively related to total phosphorus, turbidity, suspended solids, and zooplankton biomass, and negatively related to macrophyte and macroinvertebrate abundance. Suspended solids in the carp treatments consisted primarily of inorganic particles. Carp were either positively or negatively related to phytoplankton, depending on zooplankton abundance. A high biomass of carp had greater effect on nutrients, turbidity, and suspended solids than a low biomass. Channel catfish was positively related to total phosphorus concentrations and altered zooplankton composition, but did not affect turbidity, suspended solids, macroinvertebrates, and macrophytes. These results suggest that common carp have a stronger influence on water quality and aquatic community structure than benthic fish native to North America.