What if?

[Dick Dastardly]

But MC "what if"?

[Anderoo]

Oh, OK, you mean:

 

Why would I want to cause terrible pain to creatures that I claim to respect and admire?

 

I wasn't looking for answers, it was rhetorical. And in fact I didn't answer your question (I understand what you mean now). If the question was the one above, the answer would definitely not be:

 

...because I have a natural compulsion to do so, because I love being in and exploring nature, and because it's challenging, difficult and (occasionally!) rewarding

 

!

[Dick Dastardly]

No my mistake MC just needed it clarifying.Thanks.

[BoldBear]

One thing that no-one seemed to mention (unless I missed it) was that If Angling was banned and anglers dissappeared from our rivers and lakes our waters could very quickly fall into neglect and pollution.

Imagine if there was no need for the ACA and other similar angling organisations and no Fisheries staff in the NRA and the only thing that the NRA did was issue extraction notices; then imagine what it may be like 20 years later:

 

Will there be anyone left who is vaguely interested enough to police the welfare of underwater life in our rivers/lakes?????

Yes you might get the odd nature lover who is interested, or maybe a school trip down to the local pond, but can you imagine the first sentence in a documentary about fresh water life on telly? "Once upon a time, people were interested in conserving the underwater wildlife that used to live in our waterways; however....."

 

The average person in the street only ever thinks about the birds that swim and fly above the water and very rarely even thinks about the creatures below the surface.

Who will notice the farmer who empties his slurry into the local pond, lake or stream?? or the Company whos outfall empties into the local land drain, river or lake?

There would not be any Anglers on the water to notice will there?.

I don't think there are many freshwaters in the UK that have not at some time been polluted by somone and the only reason that most of these pollutions have come to light is because we dangle with an Angle.

If you think differently: list 5 waters in your part on the UK that have never been polluted. I bet you have trouble finding many unless you live in the wilds.

Edited September 29, 2008 by BoldBear

[Dick Dastardly]

Totally agree BoldBear but would you be prepared/happy to carry on fishing if you knew it definately caused fish "pain" and "distress"?

[Guest tigger]

For the sake of this disscusion forget any scientific research that has been made or any conclussions that practical experience has lead you to.what would you do if fishing was proven to cause "pain","distress","suffering" to fish,would youu still fish ? how would you feel about such a thing?

 

 

 

Budgie I honestly think fish do feel pain but I still fish regardless, as I have hunted game etc by shooting/running dogs/terriers etc etc knowing that the animals I hunt feel pain. It's simply a case of if I'm gonna kill something I try my utmost to do it as quickly and painlessly as possable and if I'm fishing I try to do as little damage to the fish as I can if I'm going to release it. At the end of the day I enjoy fishing and so am prepared to put the fish through some pain for a short time.........selfish I know but that's just how it is I'm afraid.

Edited September 29, 2008 by tigger

[Andy Macfarlane]

Bold Bear, I had the very same discussion with the some antis on Argyle Street, Glasgow one day. I put all the same questions and feeling to them and asked them who would pay for the EA and SEPA to operate, who would raise money for LCAP and similar organisations. I attracted quite an audience, who were very intrigued by my line of questioning. Many had filled out petitions, asking for the ban on angling. Once it was patently obvious that these anti had no clear answers, the very same people removed their signatures from said petitions, disgusted at the fact that the antis had no remit to deal with all the problems you mentioned. The antisare very good at playing with people but when it comes down to it, they'd rather sit in front of the telly than actually take to the banks.

[BoldBear]

If Fishing in it's present form did cause pain then I don't think that I would still get as much enjoyment from it. and I would spend my spare time on the Golf course and Painting etc. however I may turn to sea fishing and catch the odd fish (I've only ever been able to catch the very odd sea fish anyway) for the table but my fishing would not give me the same enjoyment as it always has.

 

One of the worlds most respected scientists in the study of fish and their senses etc. who was a top scientist at the Natural History Museum in London for many years and a well respected and learned authority until he died a few years ago (Dr. Alwyne Wheeler) and had forgotten more on this subject than most scientists ever knew; once wrote a paper about this subject which said that a fishes mouth has developed to allow the fish to eat spines, shells etc. and be lacerated in normal feeding, and that the blood vessels in the mouth are absent. also that the part of the brain that Mammals have which feel pain as we know it are non existent.

 

Recent experiments in this field which are quoted by these bedsit activists cite experiments that show that a fish feels pain use electric shocks or bee venom injection in fishes mouths, and because the fish showed distain or a reaction then they said that they must be feeling pain.

 

Utter ClapTrap!!!!

 

My experience alone has shown me many times that FISH DO NOT FEEL PAIN AS WE KNOW IT. I have lost count of the fish that have had bits of their bodies missing and still bleeding after being attacked by birds or Pike but Still going out for a snack.

Would you want to go out for a snack after having a foot ripped of by a giant bird or Pike???

I doubt very much if you would!

[Andy Macfarlane]

Quite a sensible take on the subject methinks.

[corydoras]

If for any reason it became impossible to carry on in this way then I would probably stop fishing in the UK but would continue when possible through overseas trips. Hopefully I will never have to make these choices.

Strictly speaking that would still be illegal. Under UK law it's an offence to take part in an activity that is illegal in this country, even if it is not illegal in the country that you visited.

 

For example, the age of consent in China is 14. If I were to have sex with a fourteen year old school girl in China I would not be breaking Chinese law, but could still be arrested for it on my return to the UK.

Edited September 29, 2008 by corydoras