Strength of knots

[ColinW]

I think that before you publish results of your tests you should first make sure you are absolutely sure you know what you are tying. I can't understand the reference to "tucking" the grinner, even if what you were tying was actually a uni-knot! I performed similar tests many years ago (in the old blue 18lb Sylcast) and the grinner and uni-knots won over blood knots by a mile. Most of the time for the grinner and uni knot the line actually broke nowhere near the knot, the blood knot always broke at the knot. It wasn't a very scientific test, because I didn't actually measure the results, but it convinced me to change and I've never had cause to regret it.

My own belief is that the grinner is the strongest (I'm not mentioning the palomar because I don't use it) the uni-knot the second and the blood knot a poor third I use the uni-knot because it is close enough in strength to a grinner and neater.

[The Flying Tench]

I'll see if I can do some tests in a few weeks, workshop looks like a skip at the moment - twas positively tidy when Colin called round - but now looks like a bombed out Tehran market place!

 

Is it mainly mono we're interested in at the moment?, if so what BS? - I've got a bulk spool of fairly fresh 8lb suffix that's been kept in the dark, should be OK for comparing different knots.

 

I would prefer to stick to one type of line at a time - can do braids, fluoro's etc another time maybe..........

 

What knots? Uni, Grinner, Blood & all the variations, plus knotless knot and turle knot. Any others?

 

I can probably only test 'em dry (but well lubricated!), I'll need to do at least 4 tests for each Knot & variation so it'll take too long to soak every hook length.

 

I'll also do a few tests on the line itself, without any knots, to establish some sort of bench mark.

 

Cheers

Barry

 

I agree, we should limit it to mono at the moment. I'll do some more tests on my 6lb Bayer Perlon, and you do them on your 8lb Suffix, and hopefully there'll be some correspondence in our results.

 

It's an interesting point about soaking the line. Mine is the end of a spool, so there's no reason why I can't put it in water for an hour, but don't worry if it's not convenient for you.

 

As for knots, all my references say the grinner and uni are the same, but clearly several people on AN believe they are different. I think the knot I do is the Uni, so if you are able to describe to me the difference it will be a great help. All the web sites I have found give a knot that is the same as the uni.

 

I suggest we focus on knots for tying mono to a swivel or eyed hook. I agree:

 

grinner, uni, half blood, half blood with tuck, knotless knot. I don't know the turle, but expect I can find it. Also I definitely suggest doing the palomar as several people swear by it, also a loop to swivel. Does that sound OK. I can't promise to do 4 tests for each knot, partly because I think I'll run out of line. Hope that sounds OK.

[Newt]

John - you will find a significant weakening of mono when it is soaked vs when it is dry. Much less so with fluorocarbon and not at all with a good 'superline' braid such as PowerPro.

 

I did some testing on braid using a palomar knot to a swivel and b/s from 10 to 80 lb and largely got breaks at above the rated b/s and usually in mid-line somewhere. Granted, the diameter of wire on the swivel was not tiny but then I never fish with a hook smaller than a #8 and very rarely with any that small.

 

Note to anyone doing testing - I would love to see results with a Rapala knot if you have time to try a few of them.

 

[ChrisBishop]

I've got several spools of line, braid etc with a few yards left on I was going to junk if anyone wants them for tests.

 

I think the tucked thing is because you twist the line both ways to tie a grinner (?) if that makes any sense. I use uni knots and never have a problem, though I do fish a bit on the heavy side.

[Dick Dastardly]

John re the difference between the uni and grinner my understanding is as follows.Lets just stick to the once through the eye for both knots for sake of this explanation.

 

Grinner-put the line through the eye and take four turns back up the main line before making the loop.Where with the uni you pass it through the eye and just make the loop.Rest exactly the same for both.

 

The grinners turns back up the line help keep the loop open but can cause "kinking" of the line above the knot once it is pulled tight and with the uni the loop can collapse because of no twists but when pulled tight the kinking is less likely.

 

Everyone agree with that?

[Barry Kneller]

John re the difference between the uni and grinner my understanding is as follows.Lets just stick to the once through the eye for both knots for sake of this explanation.

 

Grinner-put the line through the eye and take four turns back up the main line before making the loop.Where with the uni you pass it through the eye and just make the loop.Rest exactly the same for both.

 

The grinners turns back up the line help keep the loop open but can cause "kinking" of the line above the knot once it is pulled tight and with the uni the loop can collapse because of no twists but when pulled tight the kinking is less likely.

 

Everyone agree with that?

 

Sounds right to me................

 

Number of turns/twists seem to be very much a personal thing, some times 4, 5, or even 6 - I tend to use 4 or 5 twists/tucks on braid (grinner) - and 4 to 6 tucks on mono (uni) depending on diameter.

 

My very general rule of the thumb is to use as many twists/tucks as I can get away with, whilst still being able to snug the knot up without problems.

[Barry Kneller]

So, looks like Half Blood and it's variations, Grinner, Uni, Palomar, Rapala knot - any more?

 

Won't be doing any tests for at least a few weeks, planning to get some fishing in as well as de-rubbishing the workshop.....

[Colin Brett]

Won't be doing any tests for at least a few weeks, planning to get some fishing in as well as de-rubbishing the workshop.....

 

I thought I'd already done that for you Barry?

 

Colin

[Barry Kneller]

I thought I'd already done that for you Barry?

 

Colin

 

 

Oh No Mate, The stuff you took was holding all the other stuff in place, after about 3 days it had relaxed to its proper dimensions & spread all over the workshop again................

[Kappa]

Everyone agree with that?

Now I AM confused! I thought I'd got the knots sorted in my head! The grinner (I think its what I'm tying but now I think it may be a uni!) often kinks the line above the hook! Any pics or tips? Rich