Pike matches, good or bad?

[Dick Dastardly]

Marks! You both make good points for your respective sides of the argument.I have stated my veiws on matchs allready but must bring up a point.In my experience carp sacks are fine for carp but that is it!pike and sacks are a bad combination.I feel that even a properly used keep net is better than a sack.A tube obviously being the best bet.The only time I ues a sack is for putting a gassed up fish on an anchor rope.Even in the situation of a pike match I see no need to retain pike for any period of time.

[Newt]

Gents - this is an interesting thread but is starting to get a tad too personal with some of the comments. I'd love to let it run but not if it's gonna turn nasty.

 

Speak bad of a practice if you wish. Do not post personal attacks of other anglers.

 

[ 21. January 2004, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Newt ]

[mark barrett]

without getting personal, Mark you must not have read my post properly. i see sacks as perfectly acceptable.

i also dont tar you all with the same brush, i am sure thee are well run matches, but the bad practice i have witnessed personally it is not second or third hand information.

[Peter Waller]

I no longer use carp sacks. I once had a big old girl breath in the soft material into her rakers. She survived, but the sack didn't. I had to cut it up and very carefully remove it. I have never used a sack from that day to this, & never will.

[mark barrett]

to be honest pete neither do i,i have used tubes for pike for years, the old ET were the best as they wee rung all the way through but they are not available again just yet. tubes are best but a sack does beat a keepnet in my opinion any time

[JackPike]

I saw a numbers of postings on another thread here concerning pike matches i have run matches and fished others the ones I attend are well run and I hav,nt seen any mistreatment of the pike caught or any intendtional deep hooked pike as the majority are PAC members and care for their pike.On the matches i have ran I keep the numbers limited and i know the anglers who fish them, the fish that are caught are usually wieghed and return to the water within miniutes of being caught.As Mark Ward quoted these matches give people the chance to fish different waters amd myself included.I have noticed that some anglers are upset by these events being held so with great thought I shall not be running or attending them anymore so bang goes my annual trip to the Fens. But one thing I would like say you just have to walk down any canal,river, drain or lake you will find a noddie trying to fish for pike without any help or they dont care how they land the fish I know I have seen it on my local waters and had to remove the culprits with being a balliff I had the powers to do so. The point I am making is any beginner was welcome to watch my matches but needed the proper gear to take part.

[carlstreet]

A few points that have not been mentioned.

 

If you were to get pike competions banned.Do you honestly think that the so called pike anglers who abuse pike by intentionally deep hooking will sell there gear and pack it in? no of course they will not,they will carry on doing it regardless.

 

So there are more pike being damaged than in previous years? of course there are, theres more pike anglers on the banks now than there has ever been.

 

Ban pike matches because of deep hooking? are you going to ban coarse fishing matches for the same reason? how many anglers have had to shove a disgorger down into the belly of a coarse fish because "its taken it right down"?

 

How many silver fish anglers have emptyed there keepnet to find they have got fatalitys?

 

Ban pike matches because of "must catch by any means" pike anglers. Take a look at the carp in a lot of the comersial waters like drayton. where do you think the word "parrot face" in fishing terms came from. so should we then ban carp fishing matches too?

 

At the end of the day, all we are doing by banning a part of our sport is putting another nail in our coffin for the anti,s.

 

We would be better off trying to find solutions to these problems.Not contributing to our own downfall by systematically banning our sport section by section.

We can all as anglers pull our sport to pieces,but thats not the way to keep our sport alive for our kids and there kids kids.

 

For the record im a pike angler and a carp angler.Yes i fish pike matches,and yes ive seen some bad practises.I have also seen and taken part in pike matches that have been run 100% with the welfare of the fish,first and foremost.

I have fished carp matches too and seen the worst and best of practises.

The same goes for silver fish matches.

I wish anglers would stop shooting the different types of our sport to pieces and start thinking of ways to make all types of our sport safer for the fish.

At this rate we wont need the antis to stop us fishing we will destroy our sport ourselfs!

[Peter Waller]

Not a case of shooting ourselves in the foot, more a case of protecting the pike in order to protect our sport.

 

I don't expect that many would sell up their pike gear in the event of a ban, most of the problem anglers don't have the right gear in the first place!!

 

This is a resurrected thread, and over the passage of time I see no reason to change my opinion. There is now no question that pike stocks, nationally, are in decline. No, I'm not blaming matches for being the exclusive cause of the problems, but I do suspect that the ACA pike championships have attracted a fair number of numpties into piking.

[Neil G]

I'm not a fan myself, have to compete with other anglers for swims on troutwater open days which is enough of a hassle, to actually compete in a match of any kind to me would be just be a pain in the arse and missing the point of what fishing is about.

 

Hate to say it but there's been plenty of reports of bad andling practice i.e leaving baits for ages after a take etc at some troutwaters, seems some anglers have got into a mentality the eqivalent to 'summit fever' in mountaineering where people will go to any length to meet their personal goals.

[Dick Dastardly]

i.e leaving baits for ages after a take etc at some troutwaters,

 

I must admit that I at first thought a lot of well known pikers were hypocrites after reading/hearing them go on about "instant striking" then watching them leave runs for an age on TR fish ins.I thought that they were adopting the "next run could be a record so Im taking no chances" attitude.

 

Now after over 20 years of TR piking (and remember on a couple this is all winter long and not limited to just "fish ins" Im prepared to give them the benifit of the doubt. I say this as in general Ive found that TR pike feed in a set way which means that when we use baits for them (which are enevitably smaller than the prey they take in general a delayed strike is required.I will give the conclusion Ive come to below.I wont go into all the anecdoteal evidence that has leadme to come to this conclussion but its basicly based on the actual things Ive experienced both by fishing for TR pike and seeing how they feed naturaly/examining stomach contents etc.

 

Regardless of what some would have you believe the main bulk of a TR pikes diet are trout! simple as that.As most TR's stock at 1 1/4lb this means the normal prey for a TR pike is a 1 1/4lb stockie rainbow. This is quite a big and powerfull prey for the smaller pike but take them they do.Anyone doubts this I will gladly scan and post a few pics. To cope with a large and strong prey such as this the pike grabs the trout same as it would most other prey regardless of species and to an extent size.This is cross ways in its mouth.As we know to swallow the prey (especially a large one such as this) the pike needs to turn the fish to swallow it head first. To turn it it obviously has to release its grip and take another one.It repeats this several times depending on size to get the fish in the correct position. With a smaller,weaker prey the initial strike pretty much knocks the stuffing out of the prey so the pike can either (if small enough prey) swallow it straight away or as it turns it have no worries about it escaping as it releases its grip.

 

With a 1 1/4 stockie the initial strike wont kill the prey.Due to this when the pike eases its grip to start turning it it could easily escape and once again still be quite an effort to recapture.Because of this the pike will hold the trout in its jawas for a long time (couple of minutes in some cases) untill the prey is a lot more subdued.The pike can then start turning it with a lot less chance of it escaping.

 

Well obviously a much bigger pike like a 20 or 30lb+ fish has a bigger mouth/head than a smaller one so you mat ask why they dont just engulf the trout of the same size.Two reasons first a lot of TR pike are fast growing (in fact thats not really a good description,to say they "put on weight" quicker would be more acurate) but despite having fat bodies are still often not very long and have relatively (compared to their non TR cousains of a similar weight) small heads. That said for me the second reason I will give is the most important and as I cant prove it no matter how many anecdotes I relate must be just called a theory.This is that pike arnt that bright and basicly develop this set MO in the way they feed and having found it sucsessfull as say a 5lbr (when its the only way it could cope with the prey) isnt intelligent enough to adapt its "pre programmed" feeding routine as its size inreases or the preys size decreases.

 

Summing up I beleive that when the pike does take the anglers 7" trout livebait itinstinctively treats/deals with it the same as it does its normal ! 1/4lb meal.

 

Explains to me why so many missed or "in the nose" hook ups we get striking "normally" and why you can leave a small bait quite a long time and still not deep hook the fish.

 

Maybe a lot will struggle to understand this as they just dont have the oportunity to fish TR's on a regular basis with live baits? And also maybe those early TR days experts were just taking the pee and were just lucky? I say that as non of them had any more experience of the situation as anyone else then!