Carp Deaths? Help us gather info

[RobStubbs]

Hi Mike, I didn't realise that, thanks.

 

Have the baits used on these fisheries been checked?

Another thing I have wondered about is the ingredients in some of the 'modern' baits, and the accumulative long term effects on the fish.

 

John.

 

Gozzer,

No baits are ever checked - and checked for what exactly ? Bread, maggots, corn etc have never been scientifically tested. Ask anyone if they have a few hundred K to check out bait ingredients in a scientifically meaningful way and I think you'll work out one of the reasons why it never has, and will never be done. Anecdotal evidence suggests there is nothing of concern in modern baits, or old fashioned baits either.

 

<back on topic>

 

Rob.

[gozzer]

Gozzer,

No baits are ever checked - and checked for what exactly ? Bread, maggots, corn etc have never been scientifically tested. Ask anyone if they have a few hundred K to check out bait ingredients in a scientifically meaningful way and I think you'll work out one of the reasons why it never has, and will never be done. Anecdotal evidence suggests there is nothing of concern in modern baits, or old fashioned baits either.

 

<back on topic>

 

Rob.

 

Hi Rob, from your last remark, I assume you think my concerns are of no relevance to the thread.

This may well be, but the ingredients of some of these baits, (enzymes, colouring agents, flavourings and the use of processed food stuffs), and the amounts in which they are used, would be considered an overdose in human terms.

I know the physiology and digestive systems of fish and humans are different, but wasn't there some concern about the over use of luncheon meat on the R Severn some years back?

If my memory serves me right it effected mainly barbel, and caused deformities and sterility in some. I think the concern was about the hormones used in pigs, passed on through the meat into the fish. I seem to remember that it equated to a human eating 3-4 tins a day for several years.

 

I was just trying help by throwing up possibilities other than the more obvious ones.

 

I do know how sensitive you carp boys can be, I've upset a few in the past.

 

( you can go back on topic now)

 

John.

[waterman1013]

Gozzer

 

thanks for the head up on baits but at the moment we think it is weather patterns over the year and an extra supply of nutrient, because of the summer rains, and then a late diatom or algae bloom, once the water palnts have really stopped growing and are in die back, causing a DO problem. But each water is different and we are seeking this info to try to determine any local or national patterns.

 

In a worse case scenario it could be a new virus or a genetic modification of an older one. No trace of virus has yet been found but some of the deaths have occurred over a period of days and weeks, while other have occurred all at one time, so we are probably looking at a number of causes. Many of the waters hit are lightly fished with not that much bait going in, very different from match and commercial waters which have also had deaths. I had one reported this morning which almost certainly was due to thunder storms and a DO crash resulting from the low pressure under the storm clouds.

 

Reports of red/tea coloured water from fisheries without kills would be very useful to add to the database as well, as Ken kindly suggests.

 

Mike

[Steve Burke]

If it's largely carp being affected wouldn't it suggest that it's not just a dissolved oxygen problem as carp are less affected by low DO than some other species?

 

Having said that, the effects of being unable to spawn may be a contributory factor in the case of the carp. This would of course affect only the mature fish. Are carp of say 5 years old also dying?

 

I suspect that there may be different causes in different waters. Indeed it may be quite a complicated scenario.

 

Mike, I for one would be grateful if you'd kindly keep us up to date with the situation by posting updates here. Thanks in advance.

[Guest Rabbit]

Havn't had time to dig any deeper in this...but was talking to a couple of anglers on the river bank yesterday evening, and they said a LOT of river carp in the Lower Seven / Avon have died. The suspected cause is a Koi virus, from Koi that have found there way into the rivers from the summer floods.

 

Anyone know more about this?

[poledark]

I will help where I can, but surely "reports" from anglers with no scientific skills or measuring equipment are of no real use at all. One mans "peaty" is diferent to anothers.

 

A phone call followed by a quick follow up by an expert and water samples taken and bodies removed for examination might help.

 

Like Steve, I very much doubt if DO is responsible, but the EA will come and measure it for you.

 

Den