Pike exam

[Neil G]

Good point about the skippers being there to help out...definately a big difference between boat and Coarse angling.

[Dick Dastardly]

Good point about the skippers being there to help out...definately a big difference between boat and Coarse angling.

 

Yes definately.As I tried to point out you just dont have the luxurey of always having some one on the bank who can help you let alone an experienced person like a charter skipper.

 

Ive been pike fishing a long time now and through experience and a few tools I've made can cope with any pike situation single handed.That said I still much rather have some one with me to land the fish,help unhook it,weigh and photo if needed.Just makes things easier and quicker.

 

Not that long ago coarse anglers would always help each other out as much as they could.Sadly these days angling ,like a lot of society in general has become very singular and withdrawn.The days of "Morning mate,caught much?" seem to have gone.

[Leon Roskilly]

I wouldn't disagree for one minute that pike are at the top of the food chain in most waters or that there very important, but i wouldn't underestimate the importance other predators like perch and chub play in the balance on our waters either.

 

you might be right that more anglers target pike than perch, but there's plenty of perch get deep hooked whether being fished for or not and i know some people on here try to educate other anglers of how vulnerable perch are. so i don't see pike as being some special case.

 

 

The thing with pike, being the apex predator, is that maintain a natural balance with all other fish in the water (including lesser predators) of around 10% of the total fish biomass.

 

And that 10% of pike biomass is usually made up of a 'pyramid', with the odd old granny at the top, usually in the 30lb range, and increasing numbers of smaller pike toward the pytamid base.

 

And with a mature population, predation by pike will be relatively stable.

 

But if pike higher up the pyramid are 'knocked-out' either by culling or fishing-pressure, especially as a result of bad handling, then things below start going a bit crazy.

 

There will acutally be an increase in the biomass of pike, made up of smaller pike, which eat relatively more lb for lb than the larger fish.

 

So the water becomes 'plagued' by jack-pike, and the overall rate of predation is increased.

 

Added to which pike are particularly vulnerable to bad handling, and when a water starts getting increased pressure from novice pikers who fish too light, leave runs too late, keep fish out of the water too long, or damage them in attempts to get their hooks out of their toothy jaws, it's not just the pike that suffer, but the whole of the fishery.

 

The pike are not 'special' because of the affection that some pike anglers have for them, but because of their unique position in the overall ecology, their vunerbility to bad handling and bad fishing practices, and the overall consequences for the entire fishery when it all gets mucked up.

 

see also: http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/Coarse-Fishing...e_for_pike.html

[peanut25]

This thread seems to be fuelling the antis arguments the longer it goes on, if we care so much for the welfare of fish we would stop fishing for them, as there is no reason to do so except to satisfy our own primal pleasure. Sorry if this sounds a bit contraversial but lets face it if you use deadbait, they have been killed solely to provide bait, do these species have any less right to exist than any other? I realise this reply also adds to their argument but I think a wake up call is needed. I enjoy all types of fishing from summer Topeing to winter pike, I would not consider myself an expert, but I feel I am proficiant in what I do, and always willing to listen and learn, this is the key, have teach ins by all means, but make them voulantry not compulsary.

[Dick Dastardly]

This thread seems to be fuelling the antis arguments the longer it goes on,

 

The day that anglers cant discuss angling for fear of the "antis" is the day its all over mate!

 

No matter what we do or dont do,what we say or dont say they will still be against angling.Nothing we can do will apease them other than us stopping angling.I dont believe in hiding the truth from them,other anglers or most importantly ourselves.If we are doing something that we are ashamed of or wrong then we should simply not be doing it.

 

As Anderoo pointed out on a thread on that exact topic its not the antis we need to convince but the general public.

 

Any way I dont do pike teach ins for anyone elses benifit other than the pikes! and any other conservation minded anglers who want to learn.

 

Also Ive often noted that its anglers who seem to have more problems with the ethics of piking or killing fish than either the "antis" or Joe Public.

[Newt]

Agreed.

 

Anti-anglers won't be happy with anything other than a complete ban on fishing. Full stop. Some of the really hard core ones are even violently opposed to human-animal interactions of any sort so see no real difference in killing animals for food, keeping animals for work, keeping animals for pets, or fishing be it to eat or for pleasure and releasing them although some are willing to allow catch & eat but not catch & release.

 

The majority of the population (not Anti but not anglers) certainly should not be upset by a discussion of how to treat fish with more care.

 

Trying to appease anti-anglers is as futile as trying to reason with a flood.

[lutra]

There is always going to be fuel for antis when man and wildlife have interaction, i just hope Joe public can see there wouldn't or wont be any fish to care about if it was not for angling, Just a lot of open sewers. only yesterday i heard talk of some water company policing its self. Anglers have policed our waters for hundreds of years and will for hundreds more to come if Joe public have any sense.

[Anderoo]

It is pointless worrying about antis. Could they convince you that fishing is fundamentally wrong? Exactly. Same thing.

 

However, what is worth thinking about is how and why the general public could be influenced by anti-fishing arguments. I won't repeat myself here, if anyone wants to talk about that please start another topic and I'll be happy to share my views.

 

The simple fact is that if people who fish for pike know what they're doing, there is no problem with pike fishing. Leon has outlined very clearly the importance of pike in an ecosystem, which I think answers the 'why are pike special/different' question. It's not species snobbery (no-one could accuse me of that, believe me!). How do you make sure people know what they're doing? You teach them.

 

[tenuous analogy] It's a bit like driving. Sure, you could read a book and chat to people on a car forum and teach yourself to make a car move, but to be a competent driver able to deal with various situations you need someone to teach you. And you can bet that it's those stubborn old sods who say, 'I've been driving 40 years, why should I have to pass a test?' are the ones who'd fail a re-test as soon as they left the car park. [/tenuous analogy]

[Neil G]

Yes definately.As I tried to point out you just dont have the luxurey of always having some one on the bank who can help you let alone an experienced person like a charter skipper.

 

Ive been pike fishing a long time now and through experience and a few tools I've made can cope with any pike situation single handed.That said I still much rather have some one with me to land the fish,help unhook it,weigh and photo if needed.Just makes things easier and quicker.

 

Not that long ago coarse anglers would always help each other out as much as they could.Sadly these days angling ,like a lot of society in general has become very singular and withdrawn.The days of "Morning mate,caught much?" seem to have gone.

 

Agree

 

Definately easier with someone to land the fish and take photos quickly for you without any fuss

[Dick Dastardly]

Mind you that said.........getting back to Pumphypete's question-

 

"when unhooking pike its better if there are 2 of you one to straddle the fish (if big enough) notice i said straddle not sit on or crush,

and one to use the longest set of forceps you can get you hands on thus allaying the fear of being bitten by said monster of the deep"

 

I dont use the stradling technique except for REAL big pike.But it is best if you do to stradle the fish yourself whilst you unhook it.A friend holding the trace tight is helpfull but trying it any other way gets awkward.

 

Can I also address this issue (mentioned by many during this thread) of "the longest set of forceps you can get you hands on".This really isnt good advice! a set of 7" forceps being far better for 90% of unhooking situations.I do carry a larger set but very rarely find a need for them.The problem with to big a pair is that for any work through the gill cover they are just to unweildly and cumbersome.The extra length makes inverting trebles difficult as well. Therefore why I often wonder about a persons experiences with dealing with deep unhooking when I read this advice (not a dig at you Pete as I presumed yours was a bit tongue in cheek!).