Hunting, shooting and fishing poll

[Paul_D]

I've solved the problem!

 

We could devise 'humane' methods of capturing animals. Take them out of their natural environment for a while (maybe dunk them in a bowl of water for instance), weigh them, photograph them for our records, admire them for a bit, (in some cases we could keep them caged until the end of the session), and then release them back into their natural environment totally unharmed.

We could have National Records for different animals to compare sizes.

We could import different species, and densely pack them into fenced off areas, just to add variety and to make the catching of them easier.

We could even have competitions in these areas. Where a group could get together and the one that trapped the highest weight of creatures wins a prize.

 

We would have to think of a name for it, because it wouldn't be 'hunting' would it?

 

John.

 

Brilliant.........

[corydoras]

so would you compare the killing of a fox with the killing of a youth then?

In some ways we are worse than animals, only humans and our close cousins the chimpanzee kill each other for no apparent reason or to settle territorial disputes.

[corydoras]

....

We could import different species, and densely pack them into fenced off areas, just to add variety and to make the catching of them easier.

...

 

We would have to think of a name for it, because it wouldn't be 'hunting' would it?

 

John.

Unfortunately gozzer, such places exist in the good old US of A, where they know the cost of everything, but the value of very little, it would appear.

 

They are called 'Exotic Game Ranches' and some even have web sites. http://www.briscoeexoticranch.com

 

I have heard (but have no evidence) that some even have 'canned' Lion and Tiger to shoot for trophies.

 

Whatever it is it's not hunting, not in my book.

[Dick Dastardly]

so would you compare the killing of a fox with the killing of a youth then?

 

 

 

No most certainy not! Most of the Foxs killed havnt done a great deal wrong other than live their lives as nature intended! unlike the majority of youths that are killed in London these days.Rather naieve if you think they are all inocent victims.Im not kiddng ether.

 

Its far to easy to go to the extremes here with animals. No they arnt humans and shouldnt be attributed with human emotions,rights etc but then again we shouldnt abuse then either.Especialy not just "because we can".

 

I am not qualifed to speak about a need for killing any animal that is regarded by farmers etc as vermin.They are the ones with the experence so they should be left to decide.Im not experenced with hunting with dogs either.I always thought it cruel but some of the information Ive read on here has made me reaise I might be wrong.I say might as ultimately woud want to make the decission based on my own experience and not on some one elses who may have a vested interest.

 

The whoe killing thing though is something very few can really claim to know about uness they have done it.Ths includes the killing of people as well as annimals. I personally having had experience of both think that there is no difference between the two! its a down to whether the act of taking the life was justfied/necessary.

 

Some say that its ok to kill animals for "enjoyment" as long as they are vermin /need to be killed...does this mean an executioner or soldier should "enjoy" killing?

 

Ok to kill a dog attacking you or someone else but not a human doing the same? Why should a bad human be treated any different to a bad animal or a good animal not afforded the same consideratons as a good human! But how far should we take this simpe ideal? ony eat "bad" cows!

 

You see where all this theorising can go?

 

Are anglers (my self included) hypocrites and just "kidding" ourselves that fishing (catch and release) is ok because we see the fish swim off "apparently unharmed" and dont actually see the ones that do die? Its not cruel because we dont want to believe its cruel? If you coud hunt with stun or tranquiliser ammo would we find that more acceptable? The "body count" was why I stopped shooting,

 

At least the hunters/killers amongst us are honest (interestingly enough in my recent "what If" thread it was the same people (in generall) who admitted that a kill all policy wouldnt stop them fishing)

 

Such a difficult subject to even sum up my own thoughts on. Its been interesting reading this thread (all though the same old people think that by simply repeating their vews ad nauseum it wil change opinions!) and as said carried out in a pleasant manner.

 

Im for one ceratainy not so sure about my anti hunting (on cruelty grounds) stance any more.

[Guest Rabbit]

so would you compare the killing of a fox with the killing of a youth then?

 

To be honest when I see a hedgehog dead in a local park that has been kicked to death, used as a football by some cowardly yobs the evening before, that question becomes a tad more difficult to answer.

To inflict unnecessary pain on any creature for the sake of giving a sick pleasure to humans eg fox hunting then we are as humans using our superiority as the ultimate predator in a way that will be the downfall of our own species.

Its the thin edge of the wedge, lose respect for creatures we will lose respect for each other, perhaps it has already happened, we are too far down the road, perhaps those youth that have kicked to death that hedgehog are now turning on themselves with knives and guns, We are humans, humanity is synonymous with compassion perhaps that is no longer the case.

[Dick Dastardly]

To be honest when I see a hedgehog dead in a local park that has been kicked to death, used as a football by some cowardly yobs the evening before, that question becomes a tad more difficult to answer.

To inflict unnecessary pain on any creature for the sake of giving a sick pleasure to humans eg fox hunting then we are as humans using our superiority as the ultimate predator in a way that will be the downfall of our own species.

Its the thin edge of the wedge, lose respect for creatures we will lose respect for each other, perhaps it has already happened, we are too far down the road, perhaps those youth that have kicked to death that hedgehog are now turning on themselves with knives and guns, We are humans, humanity is synonymous with compassion perhaps that is no longer the case.

 

 

Good post Rabbit and sadly very true.Not only has the value of life decreased (people no longer pay heavies to beat people up when a smack addict will kill for a fix) but "respect" for life has dissapeared.......or has it?

 

I say that as Im sure that modern society with its violent computer games, "A" Team television programmes where a million rounds are fired but no one gets killed,the "cool" of the gangster rappers song about knifing/shooting someone etc etc has brought about a terribe situation with our youth of a misunderstanding of violence. call it "voence without consiquence" just how many of these street killers go on to do it again compared with those who after doing the deed in emolation (correct speling? in fact correct word?!) of ther pop/screen heroes are shocked and sickened by the reaity of their actions?

 

As Rabbit says though maybe the process is simpy just one of gradual "de-sensitisation" ie lets pul the legs off the spider,shoot the sparrow,kick the hedgehog,runover the dog.......stab the boy? Any inital reservations for any of the steps being over rode by peer pressure?

 

What a sh1te world.

Edited October 16, 2008 by BUDGIE

[corydoras]

To be honest when I see a hedgehog dead in a local park that has been kicked to death, used as a football by some cowardly yobs the evening before, that question becomes a tad more difficult to answer.

To inflict unnecessary pain on any creature for the sake of giving a sick pleasure to humans eg fox hunting then we are as humans using our superiority as the ultimate predator in a way that will be the downfall of our own species.

Its the thin edge of the wedge, lose respect for creatures we will lose respect for each other, perhaps it has already happened, we are too far down the road, perhaps those youth that have kicked to death that hedgehog are now turning on themselves with knives and guns, We are humans, humanity is synonymous with compassion perhaps that is no longer the case.

Rabbit, I salute you sir! If only all your posts were as good as this one. It is true (google for it) that psychopathic murderers are often unusually cruel to animals when children.

 

Can you explain one thing to me though, why do you think that a fox that has been gassed or trapped or badly shot has a more dignified, humane or noble end than one that is killed by a pack of hounds. Where is your evidence? I am open minded me, evidence works wonders

[Dick Dastardly]

Can you explain one thing to me though, why do you think that a fox that has been gassed or trapped or badly shot has a more dignified, humane or noble end than one that is killed by a pack of hounds. Where is your evidence? I am open minded me, evidence works wonders

 

Yes there are "Disney" peope that think all animals are just like their cartoon creations ie have human attributes but for us "realists" who are still uncomfortable with hunting maybe,just maybe its the fact that some seem to actualy revel in the death of the animals they hunt that worries us? Look at some of the old hunt traditions such as "blooding"

[Sportsman]

The youths that would kick a hedgehog to death are not the same youths that would go out into the countryside hunting or shooting.

 

I read frequently on here that anglers are in the front line of aquatic conservation and I agree that it is completely true, just as shooters are in the frontline in the conservation of the countryside, and for the same reasons. It is in their interest to be.

 

It is an undeniable fact that the biodiversity on a well keepered shoot is much greater than on so called "natural" ground due to predator control and habitat enhancement. Shooters pay a great deal of money for their sport and most of this money goes back into the countryside, to the benefit of non-game species and also to the benefit of those folk who want to come out into the country and look at the scenery.

Most of the broad leaf woodland, copses, estate lakes and ponds were planted or dug for one reason, to improve the shooting. If farmers didn't get an income from the sporting rights then they would grub up hedgerows, fill in ditches and ponds and turn their land into one vast prairie that is economical to farm with bigger and better machinery. Go to some parts of East Anglia and look at what has happened, and try to find any sort of wildlife in the middle of a 500 acre field of winter barley.

Just before August 12th this year (start of the grouse shooting season) I noticed a letter in the local paper from a lady who was disgusted at the thought of the annual (as she put it) slaughter of the poor innocent birds. She said that shooting on the heather moors should be banned and they should be put to proper use and sheep should be put out on them. Lots of people may feel the same way, even some on here but can I make a couple of points.

Heather moors exist because of Grouse. They can only survive on heather and the income from the shooting conserves the moor. Without that income the moors would be dug up and planted with spruce plantations. It's happening already all over Scotland.

I'm not sure what the lady thought would happen to the sheep. They aren't kept as ornaments for those driving past, they are grown on and then killed. Is killing a sheep less or more important than killing a grouse?

 

The fact is that many of us on here have different opinions because we come from widely differing backgrounds and have widely different experiences but we all have in common a love of going into the countryside and pitting our wits against a natural opponent, fish or fowl, wether we release it or kill it.

We argue on this (and other) forums but I wouldn't mind betting that if we were all to meet up we would discover much more that unites us than divides us.

Pax

[corydoras]

I say that as Im sure that modern society with its violent computer games, "A" Team television programmes where a million rounds are fired but no one gets killed,the "cool" of the gangster rappers song about knifing/shooting someone etc etc has brought about a terribe situation with our youth of a misunderstanding of violence. call it "voence without consiquence" just how many of these street killers go on to do it again compared with those who after doing the deed in emolation (correct speling? in fact correct word?!) of ther pop/screen heroes are shocked and sickened by the reaity of their actions?

 

As Rabbit says though maybe the process is simpy just one of gradual "de-sensitisation" ie lets pul the legs off the spider,shoot the sparrow,kick the hedgehog,runover the dog.......stab the boy? Any inital reservations for any of the steps being over rode by peer pressure?

 

What a sh1te world.

I don't think that violent computer games or TV and films have got anything to do with it Budgie. French kids play violent computer games, French TV is uncensored and has no watershed. Nearly all French kids have an Opinel #8 knife, I always carry my Opinel in France and my daughter has one in her handbag. When I showed my daughter all the articles about kids stabbing and shooting each other in the UK she was horrified she said, "I don't get it Dad, everyone on France has a knife but we would not dream in using them as a weapon'. This is a UK problem, not a youth problem. Perhaps if our youth had more to do, at a reasonable price we would have less of these problems.

 

I can only speak for my own kids, and my nieces and nephews. They don't hang around street corners. Every night my son has either music, trumpet or guitar lessons. On saturday morning he has 2 hrs judo and during the summer holidays he sails cats. The rest of his spare time is taken up by homework. My 18yo daughter has a similar regime except that she doesn't do the sports.

 

If they lived in the UK we could not afford all these activities, but in France this is all dirt cheap, in France this is NORMAL.