Jump to content

Cory will be pleased


Andy_1984

Recommended Posts

All,

 

I am not familiar with the "issue". The thread and article are somewhat confusing to me. Is it issue the "cost" of prescribed placebos. Or is it the fact "they don't work"?

 

In any event, my two cents on the placebo effect.

 

There is a relationship between how strongly a person expects to have results and effectiveness. Additionally, results occur because placebos as a treatment rely on the interaction between a patient and the provider. There can be and often are actual physical changes that occur with the placebo effect. For instance, studies have documented an increase in the body's production of endorphins, one of the body's natural pain relievers.

 

Even when a medication works, half of its impact on a patient may be due to one aspect of the placebo effect: the positive message that a doctor provides. Some research on the placebo effect suggests that placebo effects occur in about 35% of people. In terms of brain activity, there are similarities between hypnotic and placebo when used for analgesia for pain.

 

I think is dismissive to discount the complexity of the human body with chemical formulation.

 

I never cease to be amazed how many people get "better" after taking antibiotics for a viral infection.

 

Phone

 

 

Phone, you need to separate homeopathy and placebos. They are not the same thing imo.

 

take this new pill it will cure your diarrhea - placebo

take this water with a little bit of shite inside it will cure your diarrhea - homeopathy

 

a placebo doesnt claim to be a medical cure through specific drugs, its a trick of the mind and this is what the aim of a placebo is. homeopathy, the way I see it, doesnt claim to be a placebo but an ACTUAL cure. they aint trying to trick your mind just your gullibility.

 

one costs next to nothing and, at a guess, the other is likely more expensive.

You are both missing the point. It is UNETHICAL for a doctor to prescribe a placebo.

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not me Cory. I didnt mention doctors just there is a difference between a placebo and homeopathy as phone seems to think homeopathy is a placebo (imo thats just an unintended consequence ?) but these homeopathic nut jobs actually believe their own BS.

 

I agree with you though. It is unethical. What if someone prescribed this homeocrap or a placebo dies while an ordinary med would have worked. It doesnt bare thinking about :(

Owner of Tacklesack.co.uk


Moderator at The-Pikers-Pit.co.uk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not me Cory. I didnt mention doctors just there is a difference between a placebo and homeopathy as phone seems to think homeopathy is a placebo (imo thats just an unintended consequence ?) but these homeopathic nut jobs actually believe their own BS.

 

I agree with you though. It is unethical. What if someone prescribed this homeocrap or a placebo dies while an ordinary med would have worked. It doesnt bare thinking about :(

Didn't you see the thing on the telly when they sent out a med student with a hidden camera to homeopaths asking them for advice on how to avoid malaria?

 

 

 

 

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My aunt used to work in a GP surgery that would prescribe homeopathic remedies to those that wanted them. Makes you wonder how you might respond if your doctor offered you arnica to reduce buiseing.

I suspect that I would refuse, make known my opinion of "medicine" that isn't evidence based, de-register from the practice and make a complaint to the local health authority.

It really baggars belief that such nonsense is being funded from the public purse.

Species caught in 2020: Barbel. European Eel. Bleak. Perch. Pike.

Species caught in 2019: Pike. Bream. Tench. Chub. Common Carp. European Eel. Barbel. Bleak. Dace.

Species caught in 2018: Perch. Bream. Rainbow Trout. Brown Trout. Chub. Roach. Carp. European Eel.

Species caught in 2017: Siamese carp. Striped catfish. Rohu. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Black Minnow Shark. Perch. Chub. Brown Trout. Pike. Bream. Roach. Rudd. Bleak. Common Carp.

Species caught in 2016: Siamese carp. Jullien's golden carp. Striped catfish. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Alligator gar. Rohu. Black Minnow Shark. Roach, Bream, Perch, Ballan Wrasse. Rudd. Common Carp. Pike. Zander. Chub. Bleak.

Species caught in 2015: Brown Trout. Roach. Bream. Terrapin. Eel. Barbel. Pike. Chub.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not me Cory. I didnt mention doctors just there is a difference between a placebo and homeopathy as phone seems to think homeopathy is a placebo (imo thats just an unintended consequence ?) but these homeopathic nut jobs actually believe their own BS.

 

I agree with you though. It is unethical. What if someone prescribed this homeocrap or a placebo dies while an ordinary med would have worked. It doesnt bare thinking about :(

You mean like this poor little mite?

 

http://www.smh.com.au/national/parents-guilty-of-manslaughter-over-daughters-eczema-death-20090605-bxvx.html

 

Or this one?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/alternative-medicine/8844461/Parents-face-inquiry-for-treating-son-with-alternative-medicine.html

 

Or this?

 

http://www.pressconnects.com/story/news/public-safety/2015/06/11/bradford-county-pair-charged-childs-death/71053600/

 

The sad thing Andy is that I could go on posting links like that all day.

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All,

 

First, for Cory specifically. - ETHICS - U.S. Food and Drug Administration officials said randomized controlled trials [with placebos] were the only way to truly determine whether any of a number of experimental Ebola treatments were effective. "We have an obligation to provide a lot more than hope." What would you have suggested?

 

Now on to the intriguing subject of homeopathy.

 

I must live with my head in the sand. I didn't believe "anyone" thought homeopathy was "medical treatment". I was wrong. Most, (all) of the following are snippits, direct or paraphrased from our US regulations.

 

Whilst homeopathy is not recognized as "medical treatment" on a national level, States explicitly include homeopathy within the scope of practice of chiropractic, naturopathy, and physical therapy.

 

According to the 2007 NHIS, out-of-pocket costs for adults were $2.9 billion for homeopathic medicines and $170 million for visits to homeopathic practitioners.

 

FDA allows homeopathic remedies that meet certain conditions to be marketed without agency preapproval. For example, homeopathic remedies must contain active ingredients that are listed in the Homeopathic Pharmacopeia of the United States (HPUS). The HPUS lists active ingredients that may be legally included in homeopathic products and standards for strength, quality, and purity of that ingredient. The FDA regulates foods, medicines, dietary supplements, medical devices, and cosmetics for safety and effectiveness. (Just guessing, vitamins fall into this grouping)

 

Do not use homeopathy as a replacement for proven conventional care or to postpone seeing a health care provider about a medical problem. There is little evidence to support homeopathy as an effective treatment for any specific condition.

 

640x0.jpg?fit=scale&background=000000

 

The above "substances" will be under review April 20, 2015.

 

Phone

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a difference between using placebos in a clinical trial and routinely using them in practice.

 

The objection to the use of placebos in practice is that they require deception. There is at least one well known paper purportedly showing that the placebo effect still works if you tell people they are getting a placebo, but there are issues with that paper. Although the effect was statistically significant (unlikely to have occurred by chance) it is questionable whether the improvement was clinically significant. Also, the participants self-selected on the basis of an advert for a trial into mind-body interaction and crucially they were told that the tablets would work (via the placebo effect). Arguably, they were misled by exaggerating the value of the placebo effect!

 

In practice, if a patient has a self-limiting condition which has no better treatment option, telling them "There's no real evidence that it helps, but some patients say they feel better for a course of multivitamins" doesn't strike me as particularly unethical. I just don't want to pay for an expensive framework of nonsense and deception.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It puzzles me how those who believe that water has a 'memory', think that it only 'remembers' the stuff they want it to. They conveniently forget/dismiss the fact that it would also 'remember' every time something had defecated, urinated, died, and rotted in and around the same water.

 

John.

Edited by gozzer
  • Like 2

Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It puzzles me how those who believe that water has a 'memory', think that it only 'remembers' the stuff they want it to. They conveniently forget/dismiss the fact that it would also 'remember' every time something had defecated, urinated, died, and rotted in and around the same water.

 

John.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Water_memory

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We and our partners use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences, repeat visits and to show you personalised advertisements. By clicking “I Agree”, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. However, you may visit Cookie Settings to provide a controlled consent.