HDTVs

[poledark]

Thats the nub of it, the pic on the new HD ready TV is much better than my "old" standard TV, in fact it compares with the HD picture that I get when I plug my 1080 lines AVCHD video camera in to the HDMI socket. And that really is HD

 

Den

[chesters1]

then its probably at the low spec HD version Den ,720 lines which as i say isnt much more than the 625 we have now ,ofcourse we substitute pixels for lines now in non electron scanning tv's ,your monitor is a pretty good HD "TV" but at the lower end unless you spend lots of money (well not mine its old)

 

its a pity the refresh rate is half the low end spec in full HD with it at at least twice the low spec instead of half it would be awsome but then it would show just how little detail HD really has when its "captured" "filming" real HD is pretty impossible unless you capture HUGE amounts of data so the software captures "difference" I.E it captures more data in moving objects than stationary objects! as most "seen" is a semi still image so it less needs to be captured so it skips "frames" the camera then can grab more moving images for the same amount of storage!

if you could capture real HD I.E every pixel every "frame" it wouldnt fit on any DVD we know even dual layer ones and ofcourse would need far more bandwidth to transmit ,so both the transmission and display is not as good as it could be if it were true HD but certainly superior to 625 lines even at 100hz

what you see is little difference to comparing 625 lines straight off the arial ,via scart and then svhs it just cleans up the picture not give a better one as its still 625 lines but comparing the 3 theres a distinct difference in picture quality

Edited December 18, 2007 by chesters1

[poledark]

Sorry if we have hijacked your thread Peter but I think we can all learn a bit from this....

 

Chesters, I take your point about video/film not needing to capture detail, but each single frame on my video camera is 8mgb, and a look at some of the stills I have grabbed shows plenty of detail.

 

The same clip on my 17" PC using the Sony software for AVCHD is not as good as when I plug the HDMI socket in to the TV, and that is 32".

 

Does "HD ready" as in the adverts, really mean what it says?

 

Den

[chesters1]

yes but the ones at low prices now are mostly the 720 versions "HD" in name but not full HD as in the top rate versions ,thats the trouble when cop outs are made to the manufacturers.

compare your 8mb frame to a single pic taken by a camera Den, in RAW its many times that,string those together for a film and your looking at huge amounts of data and RAW is realy whats seen (using the constraints of the cameras pixel detail) once the camera gets hold of it in non RAW for storage its just a representation of an image like a painting.

as i said in other posts when we get away from large pixels making big pictures down to infinitesimally small ones(pixels) then real detail will be seen ,if something on a bird is smaller than the gaps between present day pixels its probably lost if its captured by the edge of two pixels then its probably missed in the mass covering the rest of the pixel and lost ,cameras just record mass data they cant pick out detail as yet and "set it aside" to be put on top of the rest,if a pixel picks up mostly green the it will be all green in the cameras "mind"if you get my drift,at the moment 10mp cameras chuck out large pictures ,if the pixels were smaller then more detail rather than size would be produced but the picture smaller ,zooming in on a 330k picture looks bad but all we have accomplished is making the picture bigger so you dont have to zoom in so far the squares are now blurrs but still not detailed as in microscope type detail.

think of it as a chap looking at a car numberplate through a telescope ,taking a picture from the same distance through even the best camera probably wont reveal the numbers ,with tiny pixels hopefully you could enlarge and enlarge the picture till you saw those numbers and hopefully keep enlarging till you saw the dust on those numbers then you would have detail!

Edited December 18, 2007 by chesters1

[Peter Sharpe]

Sorry if we have hijacked your thread Peter but I think we can all learn a bit from this....

 

Chesters, I take your point about video/film not needing to capture detail, but each single frame on my video camera is 8mgb, and a look at some of the stills I have grabbed shows plenty of detail.

 

The same clip on my 17" PC using the Sony software for AVCHD is not as good as when I plug the HDMI socket in to the TV, and that is 32".

 

Does "HD ready" as in the adverts, really mean what it says?

 

Den

No problem at all Den, I was just trying to get a feeling for what other people thought about various matters connected with the subject.

 

The reason I am trying to connect my old digibox in is because channel switching is almost instant, whereas Toshiba's own tuner takes about three times as long. Also, the programme information and channel guides are much easier to access via the handset to the Grundig box. Yet another reason is that signal strength is also stronger. I keep getting noisy signal dropouts via Toshiba, but rarely any through the Grundig and if I do, they are at least silent.

 

I was also hoping that by tuning in the TV's analogue signal to the old digibox, I would in effect have two tuners, so that I could record on one channel while watching another. I only need to see which channel is on the digibox briefly before starting the dvd recorder, but it seems to be beyond my obviously waning capabilities, especially when I try to loop in one of those multi-scart switch boxes. Sometimes I end up getting so confused that I have to just pull all the leads out and go for a lie down in a darkened room. I will have to get hold of an 8 year old kid and force him to wire it all up for me.

[chesters1]

you should be able to see the box via the scart surely? and the box through your recorders scart (perhaps) if you "looking" at the recorder so theoretically you should see the box via your recorder on the telly .

,its a bit like the old days when your telly didnt have a remote but you could tune it into the video and use the video to "change" channels

 

its the point not mentioned in the gumpf the gov put out you will need twin tuners in the recorder to record and watch programs via the recorder and twin tuners on the telly to record if you use its output to record but the other tuner to watch another channel.

nothing wrong with videos still coupled to a freeview box they happily record anything you wish but you need a seperate or internal freeview tuner in the tv to watch that whilst the other ones being recorded from

 

in laymans terms you will need a seperate box or twin tuner for everything that has anything to do with tv's

you have a tv you need a box or inbuilt decoder ,you want to record you need a seperate box or an output from a twin tuner tv to record something different from what your watching or a digital recorder with an inbuilt decoder to record.

twin is easiest for everything you can watch via a digital recorder (with twin tuners) the tv wthout the need for a box for the telly

 

the hard part comes when you have a bedroom tv with an inbuilt video even though the tv has twin tuners you still will be only able to record what you see if you have just the one scart like ours ,as you cannot see the other tuner only record from it you cannot have a seperate feed for each tuner

no doupt i will overcome this problem nearer the day by using the audio video inputs on the front of the telly and a converter scart to turn the second scart on the box to allow this but unfortunately my outside camera is using these

i will have to convert the wired camera with a wire to scart and use a splitter and convert a scart to wires to use the second tuner ,curse this government

Edited December 18, 2007 by chesters1

[mr motorola]

No problem at all Den, I was just trying to get a feeling for what other people thought about various matters connected with the subject.

 

The reason I am trying to connect my old digibox in is because channel switching is almost instant, whereas Toshiba's own tuner takes about three times as long. Also, the programme information and channel guides are much easier to access via the handset to the Grundig box. Yet another reason is that signal strength is also stronger. I keep getting noisy signal dropouts via Toshiba, but rarely any through the Grundig and if I do, they are at least silent.

 

I was also hoping that by tuning in the TV's analogue signal to the old digibox, I would in effect have two tuners, so that I could record on one channel while watching another. I only need to see which channel is on the digibox briefly before starting the dvd recorder, but it seems to be beyond my obviously waning capabilities, especially when I try to loop in one of those multi-scart switch boxes. Sometimes I end up getting so confused that I have to just pull all the leads out and go for a lie down in a darkened room. I will have to get hold of an 8 year old kid and force him to wire it all up for me.

Multi scart switches..............huh, the headache above all headaches (from my point of view) of my job.

 

They are an absolute doddle to use IF YOU KNOW HOW THEY WORK.

 

Easiest way i can tell you how to use it Peter is............disregard the switch-box and directly scart the Grundig box to the tv , wait until you see whatever desired program it is you want to record , then remove the scart from the tv and connect it to your dvd recorder via AV1 / AV2 / EXT1 ...whatever but remember which one it is in , then select the corresponding 'source or input' on your dvd recorder.

Or you could permanently leave the grundig box scarted to the dvd recorder and watch / wait until the desired program is on your digital tv and select the corresponding number on the grundig box and source on your dvd recorder as above.

 

I must admit that it is a bit of a ball-ache doing it this way and in all honesty you would benefit from a PVR (works along the same principal as SKY+)

 

But hey ho.

[Peter Sharpe]

Multi scart switches..............huh, the headache above all headaches (from my point of view) of my job.

 

They are an absolute doddle to use IF YOU KNOW HOW THEY WORK.

 

Easiest way i can tell you how to use it Peter is............disregard the switch-box and directly scart the Grundig box to the tv , wait until you see whatever desired program it is you want to record , then remove the scart from the tv and connect it to your dvd recorder via AV1 / AV2 / EXT1 ...whatever but remember which one it is in , then select the corresponding 'source or input' on your dvd recorder.

Or you could permanently leave the grundig box scarted to the dvd recorder and watch / wait until the desired program is on your digital tv and select the corresponding number on the grundig box and source on your dvd recorder as above.

 

I must admit that it is a bit of a ball-ache doing it this way and in all honesty you would benefit from a PVR (works along the same principal as SKY+)

 

But hey ho.

 

I did think of doing it that way but it's a real pain to do it, especially as those scart plugs can be quite tricky to get in (if only they had the screw in locks that computer cables have). The annoying thing is that on my old telly I had worked out how to connect a dvd recorder, a digibox and a vcr via the switch box, but the Toshiba won't seem to recognise anything that goes through it. Seems illogical, but no matter how many buttons I press, nothing comes through.

I had thought of getting one of those PVRs, but I've heard that many of them don't allow you to copy any saved programmes onto a dvd. Mind you, my present dvd recorder (from Aldi), will only record on DVD +R disks and they don't seem to be playable on anyone else's machines.