Live-baiting is cruel and barbaric

[Guest Rabbit]

Rabbit, There have been LOADS of experiments (some asinine) to see if fish feel pain. I personally believe in the professor of Biology who said that fish do not feel what we call pain, as there are no "pain receptors" in the fishes brain.

However, there is a simple answer, if you believe there is the slightest chance that fish feel pain (I have no idea how ANY creature could feel no pain in selected areas such as the mouth!) - Then STOP FISHING!!!!!!

 

Then you really should think about what you are saying. The fact that fish do not feel pain in the mouth as suggested is because fish feed on bony food and many fish syphon gravel into their mouths and expel it, retaining any food. So do you understand that point? Good i will assume you do, so on to the next...

 

All fish have to feel pain in other areas, because they are preyed on, so a reflex action PAIN would be the trigger for them to attempt to escape what ever was trying to eat them. Simple really.

 

Oh and please dont tell me I should STOP FISHING because you dont understand some basic facts about the reasons that nature supplies these reflexes,.

 

Think about it before you SHOUT again..

[Guest Rabbit]

I only said if they care "that" much meaning if they're bothered about someone hooking a fish and dangling it in the water then they themselves shouldn't hook a fish, drag it through the water, lift it out, etc, etc. Double standards in my opinion but there again it is only an opinion.

 

Joe

 

You are so wrong, if you really are a angler you should realise that your comment is naive to say the least. Fish care is paramount to all good anglers and I afraid livebaiting is nothing to do with fish care. Still it is your opinion but lets keep the two issues apart and not justify livebaiting because we catch and release with extreme care.

[kleinboet]

Rabbit - please give me the references of fish feeling pain in other parts of their body,but not in the mouth. I don't seem to have seen that before.

Edited January 17, 2008 by kleinboet

[chesters1]

we had a big fish kill a few years ago and some fish had horrific secondary infections ,huge bits of fish were reduced to pussy holes but they acted normally and were feeding .

i dispatched quite a few when they keeled over but i think if they felt pain as we do they certainly didnt show it ,pain is difficult to quantify i'v seen terriers with their noses ripped apart struggling to get back underground to a fox then some crying like babies with a tiny thorn in their paw.

perhaps pain is momentary in animals but our brain is wired differently as our "flee" instinct is far from satisfactory unless attacked by a rabid tortoise who knows!

some humans recalling being shot didnt think they were so perhaps its the circumstances it happens rather than the severity ,it will be difficult to prove "pain" as we know it because it differs in us as well ,i can cope with very severe toothache for months but my mrs is in tears at the first twinge.

 

"pain" is a word we use to describe a response to a natural stimulus ,its designed so you know somethings amiss so you take notice ,in reality theres no need for severe pain and the brain can switch it off ,perhaps fishes brains switch it off sooner otherwise if the fish "fled" for as long as it was painfull it would seize up having gotten lactose filling its muscles and thus drown or run out of steam and get caught anyway .

so a momentary twinge that makes the fish flee which switches of quickly seems the only way fish could survive.

Edited January 17, 2008 by chesters1

[John S]

But the question is would they feel pain along their spine region or any other part of their body? In that pain is a defence mechanism.so to alert the body that it is under attack I would say that fish would have this mechanism and so must feel pain.

 

Nope - they do not have a part of the brain that is required for higher lifeforms to feel pain.

 

Most of us have caught fish within minutes (sometimes within seconds) of putting it back into the water; a creature in pain will not go around thinking "Oh the pain, oh the agony, oooo food!"

[Guest Rabbit]

Nope - they do not have a part of the brain that is required for higher lifeforms to feel pain.

 

Most of us have caught fish within minutes (sometimes within seconds) of putting it back into the water; a creature in pain will not go around thinking "Oh the pain, oh the agony, oooo food!"

Well we could argue the point forever and still not come up with the truth. Perhaps what Chesters says regarding a survival stimulus could be the somewhere the truth, either way what ever it may be pain or just a desire to flee, it is a reaction to danger.

Your last sentence i?? Dont really understand the point you are making, but you seem pretty adamant that fish do not have the capacity feel pain so perhaps they would not have the capacity to think also.

 

Think about this,..To ensure that ANY creature can flee his attacker there has to be a trigger of sorts to enable the intended victim to flee or defend itself. This can come in all ways from an adrenallin rush to increase our speed and reduce our bleeding potential, to hairs on a worm to prevent it being pulled from its hole. Some sort of trigger mechanism exists in all creatures be it pain or similar, if it was enjoyable it would be pointless.

[merlino bill]

OI OI,

Everyone has a choise, dead bait / live bait do it or dont do it but for god's sake i for one am sick to the back teeth with this old chestnut.

[obe1]

You are so wrong, if you really are a angler you should realise that your comment is naive to say the least. Fish care is paramount to all good anglers and I afraid livebaiting is nothing to do with fish care. Still it is your opinion but lets keep the two issues apart and not justify livebaiting because we catch and release with extreme care.

 

 

 

what's the point, we are not on about fish care we are on about wether people care if live baits are used or not that's why I used the word BOTHERED when I was explaining, please read the thread properly.

 

Joe

[chesters1]

Well we could argue the point forever and still not come up with the truth. Perhaps what Chesters says regarding a survival stimulus could be the somewhere the truth, either way what ever it may be pain or just a desire to flee, it is a reaction to danger.

Your last sentence i?? Dont really understand the point you are making, but you seem pretty adamant that fish do not have the capacity feel pain so perhaps they would not have the capacity to think also.

 

Think about this,..To ensure that ANY creature can flee his attacker there has to be a trigger of sorts to enable the intended victim to flee or defend itself. This can come in all ways from an adrenallin rush to increase our speed and reduce our bleeding potential, to hairs on a worm to prevent it being pulled from its hole. Some sort of trigger mechanism exists in all creatures be it pain or similar, if it was enjoyable it would be pointless.

ah "THINK" you dont need to think to survive, a prawn does ok and its nothing like a brain ,responce is all you need ,i'm hungry i feed ,i'm horny i mate .something stimulates fleeing i flee ,doesent have to be pain it could be a colour or shape or smell.people run when they see spiders or snakes ,no pain just seeing them triggers the fleeing bit

"thinking " putting far more human brain into things than have it .

you dont use your brain to function even as a human all your basic responces are built into your old brain (the bit at the top of your spine) which doesent as far as we know "think" at all,it just makes things function in relation to stimulus ,the big grey bit on top of it just makes us do things we dont really need to do to survive

 

whats cleverer a stickle back who goes through the rigmarole of building a nest going bright red and luring a mate or a roach that just has an orgy with all the rest then buggers off after?

both work but i expect in energy expenditure against offspring the roach win not that they care the mating stimulus has gone and its time for dinner

Edited January 17, 2008 by chesters1

[saskcarp]

"Live-baiting is cruel and barbaric"

I suspect this has already been said but how is it not ok to hook bait but it's ok to pull in a hooked fish that is fighting for fear of it's life for your enjoyment. I respect your opinion as you have a right to an opinion but maybe the way you worded it and the fact that it is a contradiction, will only result in answers like mine. Catch and release angling is a cruel sport. Fishing for food is less cruel as it has the intention of food for survival, the same rule applies for the fish you are catching, they kill for food. I am a fisher for food but when I am a catch and release angler (which is most of the time) I am cruel and barbaric,just like you. End of story.