Live-baiting is cruel and barbaric

[kleinboet]

Hi slackey, long time no hear - good to see you posting again!! Brenda says when are you going to ring her again?

[tiddlertamer]

Maybe it would be nice, (polite even), if the originator of the thread added some more of his thoughts on the subject.

I was looking in last night, and noticed he logged on and was reading the thread. I waited for some input, but it didn't appear. Maybe he thought the pot was simmering enough without him.

I still have my doubts as to his reasons for posting this thread.

Come on TT, has the experiences of many lifelong anglers made you rethink the 'facts' you posted?

Or would that not suit your agenda?

 

 

Maybe I should start another thread about the Live baiting of forum members.

 

John.

 

 

The debate has thrown up a wide range of views and people have responded in a variety of different ways.

The majority have been critical of my original post although a brave few have questioned the use of live-baiting.

Of those who have been critical, some feel threatened that a debate is taking place at all.

These people felt that such a debate threatens not only live-baiting but angling itself.

At times, the hysteria reached a fever pitch with one person, who questioned my motives for posting, going as far as to check my previous posts and even the times I was on-line – all a little unsettling.

The name calling was also somewhat tawdry but probably not uncommon in on-line forums.

Sadly it did nothing for the debate. I can handle myself (with the pen/keyboard rather than a reference to me coming out swinging with my fists) but others should be able to debate contentious issues within the angling community without fear of bullying.

Worth mentioning at this point that I am passionate about the pleasure fishing brings to me and to millions of other people. Fishing is fun. But not only is it enjoyable but it has also had a huge impact in clearing up waterways and reversing the abhorrent damage caused by polluters. People should be proud of angling.

It is a sport/pastime I would encourage any children I may have to take up.

It is a sport that has opened my eyes to the countryside and to beautiful sights. People also seem to care about the fish. Those without disgorgers or those who litter river banks are rightly criticised.

But, I have reservations about live-baiting. And so far, no one on this on-line forum has come up with an argument that has changed my mind.

Early on in the debate, someone asked me if I was talking specifically about any geographical location.

It was not my intention however to pick out any out. It was not to call for a ban. It was to spark a debate that would make people within the angling community think about the ramifications of our own angling practices.

But Scotland and Ireland do have live-baiting bans. If there comes a day when people threaten to ban it in England, then those that practice it had better come up with more coherant arguments if they are to win the day.

Indeed, if angling itself were ever to come under threat, would it be because of such practices? Extremely unlikely in fact as public opinion is I think firmly behind angling but complacency is never helpful.

Some people here feel happy live-baiting. Others feel a touch of unease but feel it is legitimate. Others may feel uncomfortable with it.

The majority of the population however, would probably feel it was abhorrent.

Bernard Venables uses live-bait tactics in the seminal Mr Crabtree Goes Fishing but times change and the tactics used a generation ago are no longer so popular.

One person criticised me for quoting from angling writers but if writers such as Fred J Taylor and John Aston, who between them have probably fished for over a 100 years, are not in favour of live-baiting, it must strike a chord with some people.

Another person complained that writers who have reservations about live-baiting have access to the media to propound their views.

Yet the angling press in the UK covers live baiting every week without being critical. Indeed a prominent journalist on the Anglers Mail was arrested for tying to smuggle live bait out of England into Ireland. It’s worth noting that the Rudd population in Ireland has been affected by the introduction of roach from live baiting.

Someone complained about me quoting from writers rather than my own experiences so I’ll end by talking about the day I caught my first fish and my introduction to someone live baiting. First and foremost I have to say that he was a generous and engaging character.

He had come to the riverbank with his five year old son. He was live-baiting for predators whilst the youngster and myself fished for roach.

All three of us had an amazing day.

I caught my first fish and also saw the infectious attractions of fishing through the eyes of a youngster.

The father was full of fishing bank tales and the wonders of pike.

The father witnessed my first catch and wondered about using it for live-bait.

But I slipped the fish back into the water. Your first fish. As live-bait. Maybe you could have done that. Maybe you did.

But I didn’t and I never will.

[medwaygreen]

Hello TT,

 

An extremely eloquent and at times literary response to a variety of posts.

 

For someone who has just taken up the sport of angling you have become an avaricious reader in such a short space of time.

 

You will notice that i am not commenting on the Topic as i believe there is an agenda here and it is still hidden.

 

I will just say that i find your signature quote very interesting.

 

Best regards.

[gozzer]

Hi TT, sorry if my seeing you on line unsettles you, your name just pops up at the bottom of the forum when you log in, and I was hoping for some clarification from you. (not stalking, just observant ).

I question your motives because (as I said in one of my posts), you made a statement of fact, not an opinion, "Live-baiting is cruel and barbaric", and then went on to tell us all that we should stop doing it. You seemed to base this 'fact' on two snippets of angling literature you had found. To do this when you have only just started angling is presumptuous to say the least, especially to a group of anglers who have a combined angling experience much greater in years than the two authors you quote. (Even if one of the authors was very influential in forming my early approach to angling, i.e. Fred J Taylor).

The wording and timing of your thread seemed to be designed to attract a negative response, as you said yourself as you dived into your "fox hole".

I am still dubious about your motives in posting as you did, and feel you got the response you expected and/or wanted.

 

But as I said earlier I am a cynic by nature.

 

John.

[lutra]

Sorry but i fail to see any difference in fishing with a live bait as opposed to a maggot, worm or even hooking a fish on bread or a boily and if you've got problem with that then maybe you are in the wrong sport.

[pikergonecarpin]

But Scotland and Ireland do have live-baiting bans. If there comes a day when people threaten to ban it in England, then those that practice it had better come up with more coherant arguments if they are to win the day.

Indeed, if angling itself were ever to come under threat, would it be because of such practices? Extremely unlikely in fact as public opinion is I think firmly behind angling but complacency is never helpful.

 

I'd like to point out to you that livebaiting was banned in Scotland and Ireland, not on ethical grounds, but to prevent fish movement and the spread of disease.

 

Paul.

[Guest Rabbit]

I'd like to point out to you that livebaiting was banned in Scotland and Ireland, not on ethical grounds, but to prevent fish movement and the spread of disease.

 

Paul.

A;re you sure? My understanding is that it was banned in Scotland by the politicians because it was considered cruel. Seems it was banned on ethical grounds after all,

[poledark]

Whatever the pros and cons of this debate, there is one FACT...stick a hook through the spine of a roach/dace/carp or any other fish normally used for livebait, and the fish will SHUDDER.

 

Now that is a fact.

 

Whether it is pain or a simple nerve reflex, I don't know, but that is why I stopped doing it years ago.

 

 

And I still say that the deliberate tethering of a live creature, SIMPLY FOR SPORT, is not what we as anglers should condone.

 

Den

[pikergonecarpin]

A;re you sure? My understanding is that it was banned in Scotland by the politicians because it was considered cruel. Seems it was banned on ethical grounds after all,

 

Certainly in Scotland it was fish movent, and i'm pretty sure Ireland was the same.

 

See : http://news.scotsman.com/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=3336411

Or : http://pacnews.blogspot.com/2007/02/scotti...ban-latest.html

 

Paul.

[saskcarp]

Whatever the pros and cons of this debate, there is one FACT...stick a hook through the spine of a roach/dace/carp or any other fish normally used for livebait, and the fish will SHUDDER.

 

Now that is a fact.

 

Whether it is pain or a simple nerve reflex, I don't know, but that is why I stopped doing it years ago.

And I still say that the deliberate tethering of a live creature, SIMPLY FOR SPORT, is not what we as anglers should condone.

 

Den

Then is it ok for a worm or a maggot or a grasshopper?