Live-baiting is cruel and barbaric

[tiddlertamer]

OK - its time to stick my head up above the parapet of my foxhole and survey the scene since I kicked off the debate on the issue of live-baiting 24 hours ago.

Very lively round here all of a sudden I must say...

It seems like my comments have set off some fireworks though in fact if feels more like an artillery barrage.

I particularly enjoyed being called a vegan hermit in the opening salvos. I would have got back to him earlier but I was too busy smoking my hemp sandals. The cheap shot booby prize goes to the perpetrator of this clumsy insult and a year's supply of his favourite matching fake burberry scarves and hoodies are in the post.

Then again, many of you have heartfelt opinions and I'm intrigued by your views. Sadly, the vehemence and paranoia of a small minority of some of the most ardent of live bait supporters is quite breathtaking.

No I'm not an anti-angling fifth columnist nor am I about to launch an angling branch of the Wriggly Liberation Front. What I am is passionate and exited by the possibilities angling holds.

I'm also interested in discussing some of the issues fundamental to our sport.

I'm glad the debate is on-line though. I get the impression from some people that if they knew my address they'd be happy to leave a horses head in my bed in true Godfather fashion though a more realistic analogy in this debate would be a bucket containing an impaled roach...

Bravery medals should surely be cast for those people who joined me in the foxhole.

Order of the Dace anyone? Per chance the Roach Cross?

Seen by over over 900 readers at time of writing, this debate will hopefully encourage some people to think again about the issues. Don't listen to me but perhaps people should be paying a bit more attention to some of the pre-eminent angling writers such as Fred J Taylor and John Aston.

[Sharkbyte]

Hi tiddlertamer

 

I hope you didn't take offense at my post. Anyway, I'm giving the livebaiting a break for a while now. One of my angling hero's has put me onto a new hobby and I have been doing a bit of reading up, ahead of the weekend.

 

I don't suppose you fancy a days Ferreting do you?

[Newt]

Is it just old cynical me, or does this thread smell a bit 'fishy'?

 

Nope John - it is not just you.

 

Post #51 convinced me of what I initially suspected, that there is an agenda of some sort although it is likely to be as banal as ego stroking rather than anything more sinister.

 

Tiddlertamer, the 900 views do not represent 900 discrete people. Each visit adds to the count so if you look in 10 times a day, you bump it by 10. Absent anyone reporting the topic so that I had to take a look, I will have only added a view per post but some folks like to watch discussions and may have looked in 20, 30, or more times.

[Peter Sharpe]

Mmmm, interesting debate. When I think back to what I used to do years ago it makes me shudder. I used to go out on a Saturday and catch as many baits (a great many miles from where they were caught) as possible for a day out in the Fens - didn't give it a second thought. If I saw somebody now with a brewing bucket full of bait fish I would find it horrific - yet I used to do it regularly. The funny thing is that I don't think that even now, I would hesitate to use a lip-hooked live minnow or even a very small roach as a bait for perch, as long as I didn't have to cast it. If I could just lower it into the water or put it out with a delicate underarm swing, it wouldn't seem half as bad as trying to launch it out twenty yards or more. Somehow, it is the casting of a bait that seems unnecessarily - let's not say cruel - rather conduct unbecoming. There are probably any number of things I did when I was young that I would disapprove of youngsters doing now, but I can't remember anybody seriously challenging these actions to make me even think about it. That is why it is probably a good idea to air discussions such as this once in a while. It is more to do with encouraging a personal code of conduct than anything else. That is far more effective than trying to implement a ban.

Edited January 17, 2008 by Peter Sharpe

[Neil G]

Let me start by saying there is ONE main law in the whole animal kingdom: KILL OR BE KILLED and before you start on about herbivores, they kill as well, ants, worms etc.

Why do they put Pike or Perch in still waters? For those of you who think otherwise, they are in the water to do what they do in nature, kill any fish that they can catch, which is why that in any lake they are stocked, the other fish are very healthy indeed, as they need to be quick to evade the predator. So we put a hook in a fish and nature takes its course and you have a "specimen"!

We put hooks in ALL fish, so what's the problem?

 

That pretty much sums up my opinion on livebaiting

 

TBH I don't do that much of it as I'm a c**p match angler but if I do I don't do it on rivers/lakes where the general public can see what I am up....just got to be respectful of others

[Dave Lumb]

Don't listen to me but perhaps people should be paying a bit more attention to some of the pre-eminent angling writers such as Fred J Taylor and John Aston.

 

 

Earlier you said, "I am calling for no action other that each individual examines the issue for him/her self."

 

Now you want us to slavishly follow the thoughts of others simply because they have access to the media to propagate their views.

 

My opinion remains that Taylor and Aston (of whom I have never previously heard, so he can't be all that pre-eminent) are wrong - and so are you.

[kleinboet]

Body piercings what has that got to do with this? It is a choice that a person has made to inflict that on his or her self, hardly a reasonable argument to support your floundering argument is it? And you wonder what planet I am on. unless you can come up with a better response than that please dont expect me to reply.

 

Do you fish with Maggots, worms, etc? Then you are live baiting! There are only two reasons for making a post like yours:

1 - You are deliberately making provacative posts (????????????????????)

2 - you genuinely do not understand what the thread is about!

 

using a fish as live bait is not "cruel and Sadistic" as alleged. If the Predator takes the fish or whatever, that is is the way things are under the water, whether it is a "live bait" or one of the many small fish swimming about, is nature!

What body piercing is about, is the fact that people think it is "cruel" to put a hook into a fish. well people have piercings every day and no-one tells them it is cruel. We have gone to great lengths to show people on the web that angling is not a sport of sadists! I myself have been hooked several times and can report that I have had more painful injections. Why is it that caught fish, EVEN THOSE USED AS LIVEBAIT AND RELEASED BACK INTO THE WATER are caught over and over again.

In fact we have even got into the habit of naming big fish!

[Codger]

I used live bait once when I was a lad and caught a 7lb pike...I am now ashamed to say I took it home to show my mum.

When I was a kid I used to shoot with an air rifle almost anything that moved...then graduated to a shot gun for rabbits and pigeons...

I now would not fish with a live bait or kill a fish for "fun" & I would not shoot any bird (though I have been known to dispatch the occasional rat!) I don't think any of us are ever entirely consistent !

What I am trying to say is that we all have our opinions on what is acceptable and what is not...but really they are just that....opinions

Without debate nothing will ever change...so bring it on...

I must say that I for one (with the exception of the occasional personal comment) have found this thread interesting and entertaining....

Thank you !!!!!

[gozzer]

Nope John - it is not just you.

 

Post #51 convinced me of what I initially suspected, that there is an agenda of some sort although it is likely to be as banal as ego stroking rather than anything more sinister.

 

Having just read the post in question, I have to agree that there certainly does seem to be an agenda Newt.

It seems just to be there to 'stir the pot' a little. It offers no facts on which the statement can be based, just a couple of snippets from angling writers, (one I've never heard of) to try and add some credence to TTs 'facts'.

 

A note TT, if you want a subject debated, then post an experience based opinion, or a question backed by your personal beliefs, then it will be debated.

 

On the other hand, if you are (as has been hinted at by another poster), an 'old' member having a bit of fun, then A Happy New Year and welcome back.

 

John.

[Guest Rabbit]

Do you fish with Maggots, worms, etc? Then you are live baiting! There are only two reasons for making a post like yours:

1 - You are deliberately making provacative posts (????????????????????)

2 - you genuinely do not understand what the thread is about!

 

using a fish as live bait is not "cruel and Sadistic" as alleged. If the Predator takes the fish or whatever, that is is the way things are under the water, whether it is a "live bait" or one of the many small fish swimming about, is nature!

What body piercing is about, is the fact that people think it is "cruel" to put a hook into a fish. well people have piercings every day and no-one tells them it is cruel. We have gone to great lengths to show people on the web that angling is not a sport of sadists! I myself have been hooked several times and can report that I have had more painful injections. Why is it that caught fish, EVEN THOSE USED AS LIVEBAIT AND RELEASED BACK INTO THE WATER are caught over and over again.

In fact we have even got into the habit of naming big fish!

 

Sometimes I get weary as to being one of the few who have the voice of reason on here, and then I see a post like this and it inspires me... Thanks KB