Ethics?

[gozzer]

I've thought long and hard about starting this thread, but reading some of the comments on the 'Livebaiting' debate, (and a kick up the backside from another member) have made up my mind.

 

It was comments like "I used to livebait, but now I can't bring myself to do it" that made me wonder what causes the changes in attitude and approach to angling.

I can only speak for me and from my own experiences, but my beliefs in what I consider to be acceptable in angling haven't changed much in the course of my angling career.

I have been surrounded by anglers and angling since I can first remember. My father and two uncles were all life members of Leeds & District ASA, (my uncle fished in the 'All England' for Leeds, and has a memorial trophy in his name, fished for annually), my mum even met my dad in the old Anglers Club! So you can see it was inevitable that I would follow the same path.

I give that brief history so you know what my angling roots are, and can judge if it has any bearing on my views.

 

I was taught that fish are just that, fish, another animal that we share this world with. That fish are wild creatures that we hunt and, sometimes eat, along with other various creatures. I was also taught to respect (if that's the right word) them and angling. I never (even at a young age) thought that they were capable of 'feelings', or felt 'pain'. If one got injured, through my own stupidity, or lack of skill, I would feel regret about it, but not dwell on it as some do. Instead I would try to learn from the incident, and try not to repeat it.

My experiences over the years have confirmed (to me at least), that my initial thoughts were correct.

 

While I have followed improvements in materials and design that benefit the fish, i.e. net material and disgorgers, I struggle to understand the apparent change in the accepted ethics in angling, the fish haven’t changed, so it must be the attitudes of the angler.

Have anglers become more ‘caring’? I haven’t, I still take the same care as I always did.

Have we become more ‘enlightened’? I think not, the popularity of overstocked ‘easy’ fisheries, and the acceptance of some of the more (IMO) dubious methods of fishing rule that out for me.

Have we brought about the ‘ethical’ changes for the benefit of the fish, our own consciences, or to appease the general public?

The vastly over stocked fisheries and mass introduction of alien species, rule out the fish option for me.

That leaves the other two, and if I’m right, what does the future hold?

How many more ethical changes will be made? There are those on here who are against taking fish for the pot, some would like to see livebaiting banned, others would like to see an end to keepnets, match fishing and even treble hooks.

If we keep on like this, then how long until we question the ethics of angling itself, and do the job of the anti’s for them?

 

John.

[Houghton]

I've thought long and hard about starting this thread, but reading some of the comments on the 'Livebaiting' debate, (and a kick up the backside from another member) have made up my mind.

 

It was comments like "I used to livebait, but now I can't bring myself to do it" that made me wonder what causes the changes in attitude and approach to angling.

I can only speak for me and from my own experiences, but my beliefs in what I consider to be acceptable in angling haven't changed much in the course of my angling career.

I have been surrounded by anglers and angling since I can first remember. My father and two uncles were all life members of Leeds & District ASA, (my uncle fished in the 'All England' for Leeds, and has a memorial trophy in his name, fished for annually), my mum even met my dad in the old Anglers Club! So you can see it was inevitable that I would follow the same path.

I give that brief history so you know what my angling roots are, and can judge if it has any bearing on my views.

 

I was taught that fish are just that, fish, another animal that we share this world with. That fish are wild creatures that we hunt and, sometimes eat, along with other various creatures. I was also taught to respect (if that's the right word) them and angling. I never (even at a young age) thought that they were capable of 'feelings', or felt 'pain'. If one got injured, through my own stupidity, or lack of skill, I would feel regret about it, but not dwell on it as some do. Instead I would try to learn from the incident, and try not to repeat it.

My experiences over the years have confirmed (to me at least), that my initial thoughts were correct.

 

While I have followed improvements in materials and design that benefit the fish, i.e. net material and disgorgers, I struggle to understand the apparent change in the accepted ethics in angling, the fish haven’t changed, so it must be the attitudes of the angler.

Have anglers become more ‘caring’? I haven’t, I still take the same care as I always did.

Have we become more ‘enlightened’? I think not, the popularity of overstocked ‘easy’ fisheries, and the acceptance of some of the more (IMO) dubious methods of fishing rule that out for me.

Have we brought about the ‘ethical’ changes for the benefit of the fish, our own consciences, or to appease the general public?

The vastly over stocked fisheries and mass introduction of alien species, rule out the fish option for me.

That leaves the other two, and if I’m right, what does the future hold?

How many more ethical changes will be made? There are those on here who are against taking fish for the pot, some would like to see livebaiting banned, others would like to see an end to keepnets, match fishing and even treble hooks.

If we keep on like this, then how long until we question the ethics of angling itself, and do the job of the anti’s for them?

 

John.

 

Sadly, I can see the day when coarse fishing is banned. I believe that one day the only fishing allowed will be 'fishing for the pot' and at a high price too.

[Brian Carragher]

The biggest danger to angling comes from anglers themselves ( and I have'nt read anything on the hot topic of the day) with their own narrrow minded almost tunnel vision zeal who campaign and try to rally support against parts or practices of angling that they "are not comfortable with"

 

If anyone wants to chuck the baby out with the bathwater, then carry on spouting their own predujices and pretty soon we as anglers won't have anything left to campaign for or argue against as we'll have killed the very thing we say we all derive so much pleasure from

 

I do wonder sometimes why some people go fishing in the first place

 

Don't say you have'nt been warned

[medwaygreen]

Hello John,

 

An interesting post, i have just made my first post on the other thread having followed the posts with great interest.

These are my views on your topic.

I myself have been fishing for over 45 years and i have never used a live bait or a dead bait or a lure or a spinner or anything else in the pursuit of Pike or Perch simple because they have never been a quarry species that i have targeted and for no other reason. Always been a Roach and Tench man myself.

I would defend the right of any angler to do so should they wish and that would always be my position.

I have one thought on changing attitudes which i have experienced myself not directly related to Angling, but to shooting. I have for over 35 years been involved in all forms of hunting and shooting, over the last 10 years i have stopped shooting live quarry not because i believe it to be wrong, but because i believe my natural hunting instinct has declined with old age or should i say older age, this may be why there are anglers that once did and now do not, just something that happens with the passage of time and of course people's natural instinct decline i guess at different rates and speeds.

Only an idea of mine, but maybe one that is worth consideration.

Lastly can anyone that challenges the use of this legitimate tactic really call themselves a complete Angler?

[kleinboet]

I certainly hope that does not happen! Fishing is a SPORT that is truly internationall, go to any country in the world today, ANY COUNTRY!!!, take out a rod and reel and you will see people grin!

You are a member of the fishing fraternity!

It is ONLY in this country that fish are treated with such reverence, witness Rex Hunt (who is really trying to put catch and return in the Australian fisherman's head!) When he catches fish, he returns them with a toss over his shoulder. It is the same all over the rest of the world. Man is the top predator in the world today - get used to it! There are NO animals safe from man - so he really IS the top predator! These politically correct people who insist that fishing is wrong ARE WRONG!!!

To all you PC people out there, get used to it - we anglers in the UK are not alone!

WE are the top predator and we better start acting like it! So we use livebaits, there are fish that ensnare other fish with a live lure albeit one that is connected to it.

It is about time that anglers said that fish are NOT on a par with humans, so please stop going on about it.

All you PC's out there, do you own a pet? do you have a dog, does he eat at the table with a knife and fork? I know that is a ridiculous scenario, but that is exactly what you are trying to bring about.

Birds shouldn't be in cages? Why NOT?

I enjoy my fishing and I look after the fish I catch because I like doing it! Please leave me and other anglers alone. Horses for courses - If you want to play golf or playstation or whatever, go and enjoy yourselves AND LEAVE US TO ENJOY OURSELVES!!!!

[Houghton]

I certainly hope that does not happen! Fishing is a SPORT that is truly internationall, go to any country in the world today, ANY COUNTRY!!!, take out a rod and reel and you will see people grin!

You are a member of the fishing fraternity!

It is ONLY in this country that fish are treated with such reverence, witness Rex Hunt (who is really trying to put catch and return in the Australian fisherman's head!) When he catches fish, he returns them with a toss over his shoulder. It is the same all over the rest of the world. Man is the top predator in the world today - get used to it! There are NO animals safe from man - so he really IS the top predator! These politically correct people who insist that fishing is wrong ARE WRONG!!!

To all you PC people out there, get used to it - we anglers in the UK are not alone!

WE are the top predator and we better start acting like it! So we use livebaits, there are fish that ensnare other fish with a live lure albeit one that is connected to it.

It is about time that anglers said that fish are NOT on a par with humans, so please stop going on about it.

All you PC's out there, do you own a pet? do you have a dog, does he eat at the table with a knife and fork? I know that is a ridiculous scenario, but that is exactly what you are trying to bring about.

Birds shouldn't be in cages? Why NOT?

I enjoy my fishing and I look after the fish I catch because I like doing it! Please leave me and other anglers alone. Horses for courses - If you want to play golf or playstation or whatever, go and enjoy yourselves AND LEAVE US TO ENJOY OURSELVES!!!!

 

I agree, but if fishing is ever banned it will this daft country that does it first.

I love Britain but sadly its full of gobshites.

[lutra]

I love Britain but sadly its full of gobshites.

 

Not sure you should say that on here but i will second it anyway.

[lutra]

Ive never had a problem with the ethics of fishing, more the ethics of animal loving Joe public getting a nice little pussy cat and letting it out to kill and torture the wildlife, eating meat but not liking to see what it is. Then they go out for a Sunday drive in their gas guzzling car to see the nice clean country side. And that's not even scratching the surface. Its not us anglers that need to look at your ethics.

[Guest Rabbit]

I agree, but if fishing is ever banned it will this daft country that does it first.

I love Britain but sadly its full of gobshites.

 

Angling will never be banned just as long as we move with the times and not hang on to some outdated methods that the politicians can have an excuse to impose bans. The people of this Island is what is Britain and for you to degrade the people as such is merely confirming what some antis already think of anglers,

 

Well done.

 

Now tell me about what so called political party you support, no dont bother I think I already know.

[Guest Rabbit]

I certainly hope that does not happen! Fishing is a SPORT that is truly internationall, go to any country in the world today, ANY COUNTRY!!!, take out a rod and reel and you will see people grin!

You are a member of the fishing fraternity!

It is ONLY in this country that fish are treated with such reverence, witness Rex Hunt (who is really trying to put catch and return in the Australian fisherman's head!) When he catches fish, he returns them with a toss over his shoulder. It is the same all over the rest of the world. Man is the top predator in the world today - get used to it! There are NO animals safe from man - so he really IS the top predator! These politically correct people who insist that fishing is wrong ARE WRONG!!!

To all you PC people out there, get used to it - we anglers in the UK are not alone!

WE are the top predator and we better start acting like it! So we use livebaits, there are fish that ensnare other fish with a live lure albeit one that is connected to it.

It is about time that anglers said that fish are NOT on a par with humans, so please stop going on about it.

All you PC's out there, do you own a pet? do you have a dog, does he eat at the table with a knife and fork? I know that is a ridiculous scenario, but that is exactly what you are trying to bring about.

Birds shouldn't be in cages? Why NOT?

I enjoy my fishing and I look after the fish I catch because I like doing it! Please leave me and other anglers alone. Horses for courses - If you want to play golf or playstation or whatever, go and enjoy yourselves AND LEAVE US TO ENJOY OURSELVES!!!!Talking of tossing I think you should look up anger management in the Cheltenham Directory.Talking of tossing I think you should look up anger management in the Cheltenham Directory.

What??? Are you serious Because man is the top predator and that gives him the so called right to treat all other species with contempt and disregard. One point I will take up with you is just when does Rex Hunt return his fish tossing them over his shoulder?

PC this PC that, calm down go fishing even though its blowing a gale..