Ethics?

[kleinboet]

Newt, Den and others,

I am 64 years of age,and HAVE used livebaits before. In South Africa there is a species of frog which goes in that country by the name Platanna. It is a totally aquatic animal and is sold live in shops for fishing. It is usually mounted on the hook using an elastic band in a complicated knotting procedure. These are used for a number of fish (Vundu, Geelvis, Barbel - not our Barbel, but a species of catfish! etc), they have even caught large mouth Bass which have been imported from the U.S.A.

Although I am more circumspect these days, if I were fishing for, say Pike, and not having any luck with either a lure or deadbait, yet someone further up the bank has caught a few using live bait, I would change to that method without a qualm as I am there to try and catch fish.

I have never, and never will hook a fish for livebait anywhere near the eyes, I like to keep the bait looking natural, which means a small treble hook just behind the dorsal at the back of the fish! and I have, when usuccessful, returned my livebait to the water when finished, watching it swim away, apparently unharmed! (I have caught a few fish with holes in their back, so I don't think I am the only one!)

[Grandma]

I have never, and never will hook a fish for livebait anywhere near the eyes, I like to keep the bait looking natural, which means a small treble hook just behind the dorsal at the back of the fish! and I have, when usuccessful, returned my livebait to the water when finished, watching it swim away, apparently unharmed! (I have caught a few fish with holes in their back, so I don't think I am the only one!)

 

Same here, I've also caught roach with apparently severe wounds from pike, but the wounds were healing and the fish were feeding.

 

Perhaps live baiting is more ethically sound than deadbaiting, at least the bait has a chance of survival!

[Guest Rabbit]

Rabbit - while Den & I hold diametrically opposed feelings on live baiting and have expressed those, we respect each other.

 

I think most, if not all, on here hold similar views on handling fish we intend to release although the reasons probably differ. For me personally, I want them available for my future sport and the future sport of other anglers and I really prefer not to see other anglers taking too many specimen fish away from the gene pool.

 

Most of what I am reading from you indicates your 'ethics' consist mostly of worry about what others think of your/our actions rather than from any internal sense of what you feel is right or wrong even if that might vary from what others think.

 

I'm not sure that sort of reasoning exactly gives you the high moral ground you seem to assume you are standing on.

 

Another comment about my sincerity Newt? I was going to respond with a few more words and thought better of it....Its a Sunday you and Jan have a good day.

 

Edit

Just noticed Its your Birthday too Phew that was close!!...

Edited January 20, 2008 by Rabbit

[Steve Walker]

We do not have a God given right to our sport, that right is granted to us by the politicians

 

*Thud*

 

That was the sound of a jaw dropping.

 

They work for us, Rabbit, and you of all people should know that the laws they make on our behalf are enforced by consent. You should also remember that the basis of our legal system is that things which are not specifically prohibited are permitted; we have a right to our sport which has not been explicitly taken away by law, not one that is explicitly granted. We don't live in Switzerland, where everything is either mandatory or prohibited

 

I doubt that we are at risk of an outright ban, I do fear that our freedoms will be increasingly restricted by nibbling away at the edges, and I don't think that voluntarily discontinuing controversial practices will do anything other than encourage those who want a complete ban to move on to nibbling at a different bit of angling.

[poledark]

Could I tell you a story?

 

A couple of weeks ago I was piking, red float bobbing nicely about 15 yards out. A woman in green stopped for a chat. She was about 55/60 years old.

 

It became clear to me that she was probably slightly anti angling. We discussed whether and why I did not eat my catch, and I calmly and hopefully clearly explained the reasons for catch and release. I was not sure she was convinced.

 

I further explained the reason for using a float, this being that it gave early indication of a take and hopefully avoided deep hooking.

 

While still chatting, the float bobbed,(I pointed it out to her) slid under and I struck and quickly a pike about 8lbs. Quickly netted and onto the carp cradle, flipped on to its back, and thank goodness, only the single hook in the scissors. As the barb was crushed it practically fell out

 

I slid the fish off the net into the weigh sling and carried it to the water and slid it smoothly into the water, where it shot off.........

 

Normal days piking? not when you have a probably hostile witness. Thank goodness the fish was not deep hooked or the hooks difficult to remove.

 

After a short while she asked me why I had not weighed and photographed the fish, I explained that as it was "only" an average size then I felt no need to do either, and wanted to return the fish as soon as possible.............."for the sake of the fish"

 

 

The point of the story? I felt the situation could have gone pearshaped, thankfully, due to the way I fish, all went smoothly, and lady went away impressed with the size of the fish and the way it was treated. Phew!!!!!!!!!

 

Den

[lutra]

Could I tell you a story?

 

A couple of weeks ago I was piking, red float bobbing nicely about 15 yards out. A woman in green stopped for a chat. She was about 55/60 years old.

 

It became clear to me that she was probably slightly anti angling. We discussed whether and why I did not eat my catch, and I calmly and hopefully clearly explained the reasons for catch and release. I was not sure she was convinced.

 

I further explained the reason for using a float, this being that it gave early indication of a take and hopefully avoided deep hooking.

 

While still chatting, the float bobbed,(I pointed it out to her) slid under and I struck and quickly a pike about 8lbs. Quickly netted and onto the carp cradle, flipped on to its back, and thank goodness, only the single hook in the scissors. As the barb was crushed it practically fell out

 

I slid the fish off the net into the weigh sling and carried it to the water and slid it smoothly into the water, where it shot off.........

 

Normal days piking? not when you have a probably hostile witness. Thank goodness the fish was not deep hooked or the hooks difficult to remove.

 

After a short while she asked me why I had not weighed and photographed the fish, I explained that as it was "only" an average size then I felt no need to do either, and wanted to return the fish as soon as possible.............."for the sake of the fish"

The point of the story? I felt the situation could have gone pearshaped, thankfully, due to the way I fish, all went smoothly, and lady went away impressed with the size of the fish and the way it was treated. Phew!!!!!!!!!

 

Den

 

Would have made a better story if you had told her about your willingness to have otters shot and she had sparked you one.

[Guest Rabbit]

Good post Den and I reckon you scored a few brownie points for the image of Angling with her.

 

Lutra

[Guest Rabbit]

*Thud*

 

That was the sound of a jaw dropping.

 

They work for us, Rabbit, and you of all people should know that the laws they make on our behalf are enforced by consent. You should also remember that the basis of our legal system is that things which are not specifically prohibited are permitted; we have a right to our sport which has not been explicitly taken away by law, not one that is explicitly granted. We don't live in Switzerland, where everything is either mandatory or prohibited

 

I doubt that we are at risk of an outright ban, I do fear that our freedoms will be increasingly restricted by nibbling away at the edges, and I don't think that voluntarily discontinuing controversial practices will do anything other than encourage those who want a complete ban to move on to nibbling at a different bit of angling'.

 

No not always, I mean sometimes they (the Government) will have the bit between their teeth do things without consulting the public at large. Crikey Steve that is why this forum gets so much material for the likes of Mr M. Kleinboet Chesters and so on.

 

Anyway the Scottish Assembly decided that it was not in the best interest of the Scottish people to have live baiting inflicted on them. There was not a referendum on the issue either....so in conclusion my comment that politicians do have control over our sport is valid. I think, remember we have a Scottish Prime Minister aaagghh.

 

I agree we are not in danger of a outright ban, but I would prefer angling to put its own house in order rather than have some laws imposed on us by Government itself.

 

The thin end of the wedge you understand.

[Grandma]

No not always, I mean sometimes they (the Government) will have the bit between their teeth do things without consulting the public at large. Crikey Steve that is why this forum gets so much material for the likes of Mr M. Kleinboet Chesters and so on.

 

Anyway the Scottish Assembly decided that it was not in the best interest of the Scottish people to have live baiting inflicted on them. There was not a referendum on the issue either....so in conclusion my comment that politicians do have control over our sport is valid. I think, remember we have a Scottish Prime Minister aaagghh.

 

I agree we are not in danger of a outright ban, but I would prefer angling to put its own house in order rather than have some laws imposed on us by Government itself.

 

The thin end of the wedge you understand.

 

The thin end of the edge is having anglers calling for bans of angling methods because they don't like the thought of doing it themselves. The wider pit of the wedge is the public doing the same thing, and the fat bit of the wedge is the government banning the method because it thinks the public will approve.

 

The government can then make a song and dance about bringing in a pointless piece of legislation that takes away the rights of a miniority and use it to draw attention away from some issue that actually has some significance.

 

Perhaps if you let me know what kind of fishing you enjoy, I'll start a thread calling for a ban on the elements I think are a bit cruel or that I don't care about if they get banned because I don't practice them myself.

[gozzer]

No not always, I mean sometimes they (the Government) will have the bit between their teeth do things without consulting the public at large. Crikey Steve that is why this forum gets so much material for the likes of Mr M. Kleinboet Chesters and so on.

 

Anyway the Scottish Assembly decided that it was not in the best interest of the Scottish people to have live baiting inflicted on them. There was not a referendum on the issue either....so in conclusion my comment that politicians do have control over our sport is valid. I think, remember we have a Scottish Prime Minister aaagghh.

 

I agree we are not in danger of a outright ban, but I would prefer angling to put its own house in order rather than have some laws imposed on us by Government itself.

 

The thin end of the wedge you understand.

 

The thin edge of the wedge indeed Neil.

 

I think (I will be corrected if I'm wrong), that the ban in Scotland was in part, a reaction to the moving of fish from other waters, and that the powerful Game fishing fraternity had a say in it as well. A different situation to that of England.

 

Which aspect of angling do you think we should ban when we "put our house in order"?

The things you don't agree with? The things I don't agree with? Or the things Tom, Dick or Harry doesn't agree with? And where do we stop?

 

I do see calling for bans amongst ourselves as the thin edge of the wedge, and we run the risk of driving that wedge in deeper and deeper, to our own cost.

 

John.