Floodlight fishing

[MatNewman]

Grayson - I say random as you took it upon yourself to slate commercials and comment that we are partaking in two different sports. That is probably the case although you dont see me moaning or slating what you do.

 

I like to fish commercials but I also hold a Wigan AA card that allows to fish a few waters in Wigan. This is good but unfortunately from what I have seen the AA dont do too much on the waters so when the opportunity arrises to fish on a commercial and catch not only "normal" species but other species arrives then I take it.

 

If you wantr to start on artificial fishing hows this?

 

How many of the fish that you catch are 100% native to the UK and not introduced - examples are rainbow trout, Zander and Grass carp. Now if these species have been introduced albeit years ago then surely it it artificial to catch them and just the same as the other Alien fish that are caught on commercials?

[Steve Walker]

How many of the fish that you catch are 100% native to the UK and not introduced - examples are rainbow trout, Zander and Grass carp. Now if these species have been introduced albeit years ago then surely it it artificial to catch them and just the same as the other Alien fish that are caught on commercials?

 

That's true, although I'd rather catch brownies than rainbows. I've no real interest in fishing for zander or grass carp. I like catching barbel, though, even though they are scarce in my bit of the Thames (to which they are indigenous) and I have to catch them in the Bristol Avon system (to which they are an alien introduction). Then of course we've got the ubiquitous alien king carp pushing out the wild carp which were themselves introduced in the middle ages...

 

We can't un-introduce these species, though, and they have integrated and a new balance formed. We shouldn't take that as carte blanche to roll the dice again by introducing more aliens.

[Anderoo]

Hi Mat, please don't take this as an attack, but a comparison I would make to your point is that it's like saying that an old, mature gravel pit isn't natural, because it wasn't always there. To me that's still a natural water.

 

I'd say that the barbel in (I think this is the right way around!) westerly flowing rivers are natural but barbel stocked into a lake are not, for example.

 

A gravel pit which is 20 years old and has been infused with nature is natural, but a lake dug specifically for fishing with an island at 16m (the length of a pole) is not.

 

A gravel pit which is 20 years old and has been stripped bare and stocked heavily for the benefit of fishermen is a tragedy. I'm sure we all know a lake or two like this.

 

Carp, zander, catfish, etc. are all additions to UK waters and whether they're 'natural' or not, I think, depends on some specific circumstances. Zander in the fens are (now) natural, surely.

 

It must be to do with a degree of 'wildness' and balance. A fish should be able to live stress-free (in angling terms) in comfortable conditions for which it has evolved, able to breed, and able to feed without the need for anglers' bait. The number of fish should, largely, be controlled by what the water can naturally support. (I say 'largely' because nature does sometimes benefit from a helping hand.)

 

I'm glad you're putting your side of this across, it's making me think about my own opinions

[MatNewman]

We can't un-introduce these species, though, and they have integrated and a new balance formed. We shouldn't take that as carte blanche to roll the dice again by introducing more aliens.

 

 

Why not?

 

Anglers are benefitting by catching rainbows that were introduced to the UK in the 1880s - this is accepted as they are "balanced" so why not introduce more fish?

[phil dean]

on the rainbows, there are very few fish that are "natural" as anderoo states, there are only a few venues where the rainbows breed without assistance from man.

 

the king carp is an alien.................................I do wonder how many people would be happy to see that removed.

 

barbel to be removed from all seas emptying in to the atlantic side, that wouldn't go down well.

 

this whole discussion is going much wider than the original point.

 

best of luck with the lit venue, it's not my thing as it's a commercial carp lake, I very rarely target these, but who am I to say what is right or wrong?

 

i fish a very popular river, the only thing that may stop me has been the increase in salmon, a native species, who's numbers have been artificially increased by stocking. I was in favour of that stocking, but the numbers of salmon may soon put the cost of fishing beyond my budget, not something I would previousley have thought of, but has their reintroduction been a bad thing???? It may well have just assisted a process which would have taken nature a little longer.

 

i'm glad I don't have to make the decision, which is why I leave it to experts at the EA, if they get it wrong, I can call them, and if they get it right, I can always say I helped pay for them.

 

But on the opening point, if it's what you enjoy, and causes no harm (watch out for the CO2 police as mentioned above), then why not, just don't do it to the detriment of others such as Budgie (i believe) suggested.

[MatNewman]

I think Phil like many others have summed it up - its not for them so they dont comment - simple. At the end of the day we all love a sport but have different ways of seeking the enjoyment.

 

I like to fish commercials but I also like to fish local unknown waters that arent regulated or stocked as well as fishing waters that are controlled by Wigan AA.

 

I fish with a pole (edit - the night fishing at fir tree is pole only) and sometimes with a rod. I am not a "carper" if you like but dont see it as my place to critisise their methods as it is what they enjoy.

 

I fished the match on the flood lit fishery as I was intrigued and I enjoyed it. It was my choice and I will choose to do this again. I am not saying that all fisheries should take on the same practice nor am I leading some kind of 24hour fish by light overhaul.

 

My arguement is that I was impressed that the owners had such a revolutionary idea.

[Steve Walker]

Why not?

 

Simply because what we end up with may not be as good as what we have now, and you can't roll it back. If you want to catch species that don't occur in Britain, why not catch them where they do occur?

 

Anglers are benefitting by catching rainbows that were introduced to the UK in the 1880s - this is accepted as they are "balanced" so why not introduce more fish?

 

If, like rainbows, all of the fish you wish to introduce are by and large unable to form breeding populations in the UK, I have no objection.

[MatNewman]

I appreciate what your saying Steve and that if I wanted to catch something weird or exotic then to go over and have a bash. My point was simply that a lot of people talk of how comercials are the devil and that they have fish in that shouldnt be in and that they are over stocked and that they are easy and that they are not real and they are artificail and and and and..........................however it has been argued in the past that commercials offer an alternative for all of us to persue our hobbies.

 

People fail to realises that some of the fish that they catch from rivers/lakes etc are not native and are therefore artificial the same as how some commercials stock alien fish.

 

Is it true that any stocked fish by commercials have to have the green light from the EA

[phil dean]

fish cannot be legally transferred without the appropriate licence from the EA, this goes for any fish in any circumstances I believe.

 

the practice does happen illegally, predominantly it has been highlighted in carp fishing with some very gallic looking fish showing up, but the taking of live baits for livebaiting is also covered, that practice is roundly criticised for the introduction of alien specias to SSSI waters such as those in the lake district, and has resulted in the loss of native species, possibly permenantly.

 

this illegal transfer may also be part of the reason for the widespread incidence of SVC, which has killed many carp and bankrupted fisheries.

 

the problem some have rightly highlighted is that the flooding has effecitvely put thousands of native stocks at risk of disease as well as the obvious risks of introductions of alien species.

 

we've got away with alien species most of the time in the UK, but a quick search on carp on australian sites (and pete waller's signature will provide you with a link) will show the risks

[ColinW]

My first reaction to this was "awful idea" but then I thought about it and realised that I used to fish under artificial lighting loads of times as a kid, when we fished Southport Marine Lake under the promenade street lights. It never felt like we were doing anything "odd". Going round the other side and fishing in the dark, now that would have seemed a crazy thing to do!