E U. Should we stay or should we leave.

[Ken L]

The northern ireland border is easy ,boris goes to the exising borders and sprays a line across the roads 1foot our side of it

Heres our border he says come on over if you (the EU) want one build it and man it yourselves ,you can cross ours without restriction what you do with yours is up to you and ireland

It wont be the UK making things difficult it will be the EU

Both the British government and the Irish government have given undertakings not to impose a hard border.

The question that is engaging everybody is "Will the EU impose a hard border despite the Irish government?".

If they do, it exposes the Irish government as powerless puppets and once again, it's red pill time for the people of Ireland - and for others in Europe.

[Ken L]

I don't know who I'd vote for. The Tories led by a buffoon are unelectable, Corbin is a disgrace to the Labour Party in general and to politics in particular. The lib dems are the only option for me but the first past the post system works against them. I have never been political but the current paltry lot of MPs make one realise how low we've sunk.

One of he great ironies of this nonsense is that both sides have come to agree that our political system is failing to represent the will of the people and needs to be reformed.

Some form of PR seems to be the way forward but I confess that I've never yet seen one that I'm entirely happy with.

The possibilities for kneejerk extremism in the "Référendum d'initiative Citoyenne" being pushed by the French gilets jaunes protesters is frankly terrifying and we definitely don't want to be going down that road.

[Huge_Vitae]

Ah, a new saviour is born, Jo Swinson is going to stop Brexit, super, fantastic, oh how fantastic, let’s go for it, wait a second, you want to what, end mandatory jail sentences for knife crime, give sixteen year olds the vote because they are clever and astute and are against Brexit but should also have their internet activity erased at age twenty one because before that age they do not realise what they are posting, unless they are posting about illegal drugs, or Brexit or, presumably posting about Brexit after taking illegal substance.

 

Oh yes and by the way, sixteen year old girls that join ISIS are immature and do not realise what they are doing, but a sixteen year old is obviously an expert on global warming, that yacht might be faster than almost every cargo ship on the high seas but I doubt it would be with a single container sat on its deck.

 

Oh the King has got new clothes, isn’t it good, isn’t it...

 

The simple fact in my mind is that Members of Parliament have only one person they are concerned or thoughtful of and that is themselves, If they are against Brexit then I remain for it in every way.

[big_cod]

 

Paul, why should they not publish the possible effects of a 'worse case scenario'?

You really have a low opinion of the people of the UK, don't you? Anyone with half a working brain cell, should be able to figure it out for themselves.

As I said in my earlier post, any serious preparations, for any future venture, should be done with the whole spectrum of possibilities in mind, best, to worse.

This 'leak', is no more than an attempt to cause as much consternation as possible, but it shouldn't, because you should already be aware of the worse things that could possibly happen. You however choose to believe, and present this as an inevitable outcome, just playing into the hands of those who 'leaked' it. You scour the media looking for anything that will provide you with confirmation bias, regardless of source, or spin.

You then have the audacity to accuse all those who voted leave, of being gullible, and blindly swallowing any old tripe.

 

Can't you see the irony, and hypocrisy, in your words, and actions?

 

John.

WHY shouldn't the government not print the worst scenario of Brexit I will tell you why John its there dam duty to inform and protect all the citizens of UK not hide it away from people of the United Kingdom I have heard everything now but that tops the lot and end to thenfreedom of movement on 31st October will be windrush on steroids good old Boris keep it up old chap .

Farmers shouting today about a no deal brexit and its affects no it not scouring the media John its REAL !!!

 

And you say you couldn't bring yourself to vote Tory are you sure you didnt by voting Brexit if you cannot see who is really behind Brexit ask yourself a very simply question John just look at the media the papers etc who have pushed Brexit from day 1 and who do they really represent the far right in our society they haven't had anything whatsoever to do with labour never have never will brexit is there baby I can assure you . So many labour voters who probably after 10 years of austerity imposed on them by the very same people who have orchestrated and pushed Brexit and they still follow there agenda incredible and they think brexit will solve all there problems they are in for one almighty shock I really really cannot wait for the **** to hit the fan .

 

And bumbling Boris has told the EU they have to get rid of the backstop well today they said NO mr Johnson so his red line is drawn and with the real fear of a no deal Brexit getting closer poor lad he wont be sleeping at night I can assure you his arse will be twitching more by the hour he was probably the WORST Home Secretary this country has ever seen he looks on course to top that as PM with Brexit bumbling Boris bang on form the stage is now set for the bucket to be kicked away from beneath him Teresa May will be busting her sides laughing at him because she knows whats coming and it aint pretty.

Edited August 21, 2019 by big_cod

[corydoras]

One of he great ironies of this nonsense is that both sides have come to agree that our political system is failing to represent the will of the people and needs to be reformed.

Some form of PR seems to be the way forward but I confess that I've never yet seen one that I'm entirely happy with.

The possibilities for kneejerk extremism in the "Référendum d'initiative Citoyenne" being pushed by the French gilets jaunes protesters is frankly terrifying and we definitely don't want to be going down that road.

Sounds a bit like Switzerland and New Zealand to me. Terrible places, no repect for democracy.

[Ken L]

Just for Cod.

[gozzer]

WHY shouldn't the government not print the worst scenario of Brexit I will tell you why John its there dam duty to inform and protect all the citizens of UK not hide it away from people of the United Kingdom I have heard everything now but that tops the lot and end to thenfreedom of movement on 31st October will be windrush on steroids good old Boris keep it up old chap .

Farmers shouting today about a no deal brexit and its affects no it not scouring the media John its REAL !!!

 

And you say you couldn't bring yourself to vote Tory are you sure you didnt by voting Brexit if you cannot see who is really behind Brexit ask yourself a very simply question John just look at the media the papers etc who have pushed Brexit from day 1 and who do they really represent the far right in our society they haven't had anything whatsoever to do with labour never have never will brexit is there baby I can assure you . So many labour voters who probably after 10 years of austerity imposed on them by the very same people who have orchestrated and pushed Brexit and they still follow there agenda incredible and they think brexit will solve all there problems they are in for one almighty shock I really really cannot wait for the **** to hit the fan .

 

And bumbling Boris has told the EU they have to get rid of the backstop well today they said NO mr Johnson so his red line is drawn and with the real fear of a no deal Brexit getting closer poor lad he wont be sleeping at night I can assure you his arse will be twitching more by the hour he was probably the WORST Home Secretary this country has ever seen he looks on course to top that as PM with Brexit bumbling Boris bang on form the stage is now set for the bucket to be kicked away from beneath him Teresa May will be busting her sides laughing at him because she knows whats coming and it aint pretty.

 

Do you write for a newspaper Paul? Your sensationalistic way of putting things, suggest yes, but the ideas behind them suggest that you merely copy it from the media rags that you approve of.

I too watch the news and will amend one of your claims, from, "Farmers shouting today about a no deal brexit and its affects".

To, 'Some farmers have been speaking out about a no deal Brexit and it's affects', and will add, 'they have been speaking out about the same thing for some time'.

You forgot to mention that in the same report, farmers, especially those on the border of NI and Eire, were more concerned about the delays caused by uncertainty, than the actual, eventual outcome.

Can you see, a difference in tone, Paul? One just presents the facts, and leaves the readers to form their own opinions, by adding it to reports from other varied sources, and from their own experiences . The other, (your seemingly preferred method}, attempts to lead the reader into visualising hordes of pitchfork yeilding, tractor riding farmers, shouting and waving banners in protest. Oops, hang on, this is the UK, not France, so maybe at least holding regular public protests, and ocassionally shouting 'boo', and 'swine' to those in the other camp.

 

The Government mostly has a duty to lead, but also to listen to the people as to which direction they should be going.

We had a referendum, and the people of the UK said leave, by a small percentage majority, but still leave. The UK Parliament had a vote and decided to implement Article 50, by a massive majority, I can't be arsed looking it up, but I think it was around 480 for, 80 something against. In 2017, we had an (ill timed) General election, the results of which were a decisive win for the parties with leave Europe in their manifesto. Incidentally, if you say I have voted Tory, by voting to leave, then (using your own logic}, you voted leave by voting Labour in the General election.

When in the middle of discussing/bartering over a deal, then it's hardly conducive to getting the best result, if you lay all your cards on the table at the start. If you were trying to sell something, would you publicly emphasise all the negatives about your product before stating the positives? As I said before, if you actually think about a subject then you can visualise at least most of the negatives for yourself, so don't need it to be published. Some disgruntled prick will probably 'leak' it anyway.

This is why we find ourselves in the situation we are. From the pre-referendum days the remain camp have continued to emphasise the assumed negatives about leaving, and hardly stressed any assumed positives. This has led to much of the remain camp, going almost apoplectic with fear and rage, over a possible (note the word, possible), outcome, ie project fear. (Now where on here have I read about gullible people swallowing stuff 'hook line and sinker'? ) This in turn has bolstered the stance of the opposition/competition, by leading them to believe we're so desperate that we would just roll over and take anything. Now, three years down the line, we have a PM, (that incidentally I don't like, and have also described as a 'buffoon'), who is trying to install some backbone into our side of the negotiations, but running into the other side that have been lead to believe we are a pushover, and can't really negotiate, without losing face. That, as well as those who voted remain, still running round stabbing people in the back, because of what was fed to them over three years ago. That's despite the fact that much of what was predicted as inevitable soon after a leave result, has failed to materialise.

 

I've said this before Paul, but it's one of the most repeated forecasts on this thread.

I wish I had the financial means to invest heavily in fans,and cleaning products, as well as anti diarrhea medication, because if you are right, then the amount of shite, that will be hitting millions of fans, and flying about the place, will all need a good cleaning afterwards. That could also explain your emoticons depicting you laughing your head off at the prospect of all this shite flying about. You've taken note of my observations, and raided your mattress, to invest in said products! By adding that Theresa May, will also be splitting her sides laughing, leads me to believe that you might have even gone into a financial partnership with your arch enemy.

That's such a Tory thing to do

 

John.

[chesters1]

HMM whats the response going to be ? Nissan?, Steel? ,nasty tories? ,surely not holidays and cheap fags? Perhaps the assumption we will all starve to death because we cannot buy haribo sweets or tasteless yoghurt or spanish oranges? Red bus? Around it goes again

Perhaps stockpiling meds (surely a good thing its bad to buy once their gone from the shelves) in the main brought about by the NHS not paying chemists the full price the pharmacy has to pay for them so they refuse to make a loss stocking them.

 

Whatever the media says theres always two sides its just a pity some cannot see behind the headlines and see reality

 

My eldest works for one of the big chemists ,she tells me for a box of meds costing the pharmacy £40 the NHS only give them £14 ,is it brexit or just pharmacies going broke trying to make a profit from a negative ?The meds are not unavailable just to expensive to dispense!

Edited August 21, 2019 by chesters1

[big_cod]

HMM whats the response going to be ? Nissan?, Steel? ,nasty tories? ,surely not holidays and cheap fags? Perhaps the assumption we will all starve to death because we cannot buy haribo sweets or tasteless yoghurt or spanish oranges? Red bus? Around it goes again

Perhaps stockpiling meds (surely a good thing its bad to buy once their gone from the shelves) in the main brought about by the NHS not paying chemists the full price the pharmacy has to pay for them so they refuse to make a loss stocking them.

 

Whatever the media says theres always two sides its just a pity some cannot see behind the headlines and see reality

 

My eldest works for one of the big chemists ,she tells me for a box of meds costing the pharmacy £40 the NHS only give them £14 ,is it brexit or just pharmacies going broke trying to make a profit from a negative ?The meds are not unavailable just to expensive to dispense!

Yep those meds so cheap in Spain 5th of the price they are here my sister and I stock up when go there and of course brexit will make them cheaper here not a chance Infact they will go up to the unsuspect with Brexit but dont worry everybody its just scaremongering again .

 

Of course we absolutely nothing to worry about with Brexit if proven Boris Johnson has cost lives with his reckless no deal Brexit he should face prosecution .

 

 

https://theferret.scot/no-deal-brexit-nhs-scotland-disruption/

Edited August 21, 2019 by big_cod

[Ken L]

Ignored again...