Jump to content

E U. Should we stay or should we leave.


barry luxton

BREXIT in or out  

52 members have voted

  1. 1. should the u k remain in or leave the E U

    • vote to stay in
      12
    • vote to stay in following e u rule change
      2
    • vote to leave
      38


Recommended Posts

Phone, difficult to answer your series of questions in the context given, like I intimated the reason for your series of questions was an economic response to "Can a local Economy succeed in a Global Marketplace?" That said, I would agree that the questions are pertinent in a wide range of business economies.

 

As for your single leader at a time of crisis point, very hard again, and can only be answered with several questions, not the least of which is; Is the Political Leader of a nation the only point to be considered in the assesment of that Country to succeed or fail?

 

My answer would be a resounding No. In some cases it can be agreed that the answer is indeed Yes, point in fact, Mugabe/Zimbabwe.

 

Is Mugabe's bad leadership responsible for the failure of the economy? He certainly has or had the support of a large proportion of the Country, again variables come into play, tribal support and such like. Most would agree that Zimbabwe could and should have done better. But the plague on Zimbabwe is and was corruption and the desire for some for self betterment at the expense of their Countrymen, not then the fault of a single corrupt leader but the fault of the corrupt actions by all those around him.

 

If, a Country is economically doomed because of poor or inept leadership, then you are deep up shite creek without a paddle! Just as you are not an expert on UK history, equally I have little knowledge on how your Countrymen think, but thinking in World terms, lifting a ban on Ivory Imports is going to be as popular as a turd in a swimming pool!

 

You other points seem to me to focus on the current situation with Brexit and I will leave you with an analogy, The UK is a cart trundling down the road, at the front are several teams of horses all intent on taking different paths at forks in the road, but at the back is a team intent on stopping it altogether, as the horses at the back get cut away the movement forward of the cart becomes stronger until the only thing that is left is to make minor variations.

 

As I have posted recently on watching the live voting on the amendments, they are turning out to be very interesting indeed. One of yesterday's votes was to make the Govt. accept the EU legislation on climate control and take this legislation into UK law in its entirety, now, in truth the Govt. have agreed that all EU legislation will be adopted. So, I'm looking at the amendment thinking "bit of a waste of time but hey, no problems, let it through." And as the tellers reported the amendment was defeated.

 

Now, go back to the day before, the amendment voted on was that Parliment should gain the consent of the devolved, regional Govts. On any deal before they are implemented or agreed, now that is a very powerful amendment, the SNP would never agree to any deal to leave the EU. So what happend? Amendment defeated by a huge Govt. majority. Strange.

 

Once those pulling backwards instead switch to pulling forward in the direction they see is favourable to them.

 

Anyway, question time is on and I've started to take my thought from writing this post to Emily Thornberry and her comment that no planes will be flying and Tim (nice but dim) Farron's comments that we are facing 50% tariffs, are rather taking my eye off the ball.

"My imaginary friend doesn't like your imaginary friend is no basis for armed conflict...."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hugh,

 

Interesting response. Much like the responses in the first 10 pages of this thread.

 

But first things first - The ivory deal of OFF.

 

I cannot believe "Labour" by its many definitions has an issue or vested interest other than trickle down. Seems to be coming down to the "business" end of the stick whether it be running a company or running a government. In that regard your government is trying to appease all comers. I'm reminded of the committee that designed the giraffe.

 

Where is the strong leadership that will determine the focal point for the UK keeping to many cooks out of the kitchen? I thought the "vote" would settle the issue. Instead the vote seems to have just stretched the neck a bit more. Representative government..................and all that.

 

Phone

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hugh,

 

Interesting response. Much like the responses in the first 10 pages of this thread.

 

But first things first - The ivory deal of OFF.

 

I cannot believe "Labour" by its many definitions has an issue or vested interest other than trickle down. Seems to be coming down to the "business" end of the stick whether it be running a company or running a government. In that regard your government is trying to appease all comers. I'm reminded of the committee that designed the giraffe.

 

Where is the strong leadership that will determine the focal point for the UK keeping to many cooks out of the kitchen? I thought the "vote" would settle the issue. Instead the vote seems to have just stretched the neck a bit more. Representative government..................and all that.

 

Phone

Just quickly Phone, Question Time is over and This Week has started, that will perhaps go over your head and I cannot give you a USA similitude.

 

The news on the Ivory Ban has not trickled down here yet, probably never will and is again indicative of the increasing attempts by global media to become all powerful, perhaps it would be the good basis for a 'Bond Film'.

 

Never ever believe that Politicians ever work for any populace, group or community except themselves, the people who slag each other off in one room sit, drink, smoke and socialise with each other next door.

 

Standing up to speak, having been given the floor at a Council meeting once, I was approached by a Local Elected Govt. member who told me that I gave a good, knowledgeable argument on the subject and that I should consider standing for election and that even if unsuccessful I could be co opted in, to which my reply was as usual to the point, If he or any other of the group had spoken to me the way they had spoken to other speakers I would stand up, walk over and promptly smack the offender in the mouth! At which time I realised I was never going to be a Politician and that the vast majority of Politicians are fake, false and serving their own agendas.

"My imaginary friend doesn't like your imaginary friend is no basis for armed conflict...."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

However, under a hard Brexit, UK farmers exporting to Europe could face punishing tariffs despite continuing to meet the same strict rules. Skimmed milk exported into the EU from outside the single market attracts a tariff of 74 per cent, while butter is slapped with a 63 per cent tariff and cheddar an additional 43 per cent. A tariff of 53 per cent is levied on wheat exports. Red meat attracts the highest tariffs of all, with charges on frozen beef carcasses reaching 160 per cent of their value. “At those kinds of prices, it’s difficult to see many European customers being up for trade with the UK,” said Withers.

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/general-election/food-sector-faces-terrifying-tariffs-after-hard-brexit-1-4345486

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

corydoras, on 17 Nov 2017 - 03:36, said:

However, under a hard Brexit, UK farmers exporting to Europe could face punishing tariffs despite continuing to meet the same strict rules. Skimmed milk exported into the EU from outside the single market attracts a tariff of 74 per cent, while butter is slapped with a 63 per cent tariff and cheddar an additional 43 per cent. A tariff of 53 per cent is levied on wheat exports. Red meat attracts the highest tariffs of all, with charges on frozen beef carcasses reaching 160 per cent of their value. “At those kinds of prices, it’s difficult to see many European customers being up for trade with the UK,” said Withers.

 

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/general-election/food-sector-faces-terrifying-tariffs-after-hard-brexit-1-4345486

 

 

No problem, Germany wants the u k market for it's cars, france wants the u k market for farm produce, Italy is desperate just to trade with the u k spain needs it's holiday money and the u k will have it's fish that the e u need to feed it's 43 billion with.

 

ohhh and the e u needs London for it's global services, Frankfurt is too small and a shiet hole

 

ohh and this is the reality, ,the ball really is in their court, up to them trade or shoot themselves in the foot:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42020008

 

and there are some on the e u mainland where the penny has finally dropped, where they are now stating that they should have at least given Cameron a little gravy, might just as well be too late now.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/880517/brexit-latest-news-angela-merkel-germany-plot-leaders-demand-EU-keeps-UK-single-market

Edited by barry luxton

Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.


New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.

Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.

Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.

new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.

Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

However, under a hard Brexit, UK farmers exporting to Europe could face punishing tariffs despite continuing to meet the same strict rules. Skimmed milk exported into the EU from outside the single market attracts a tariff of 74 per cent, while butter is slapped with a 63 per cent tariff and cheddar an additional 43 per cent. A tariff of 53 per cent is levied on wheat exports. Red meat attracts the highest tariffs of all, with charges on frozen beef carcasses reaching 160 per cent of their value. At those kinds of prices, its difficult to see many European customers being up for trade with the UK, said Withers.

 

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/general-election/food-sector-faces-terrifying-tariffs-after-hard-brexit-1-4345486

What we export is miniscule to what we import ,hopefully if the tariffs are so big we could enjoy some of our own produce?

http://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/markets/industry-reports/uk-statistics/

In the case of animals on the hoof most wouldnt object i suspect to its stopping completely ,wheras butter from Brittany is very nice i am sure we could live without it if we need to impose our own drastic import tarriffs on EU produce after all theres nothing i can think of in food imports from the EU that would cause us to starve if we didnt get it

If you choose to drink french or spanish wine or choose to eat french or german produce then its only right you should pay a very high price for doing so ,after all theres plenty of british or non EU equivilents out there and if those in the EU want their british stuff at a high tariff then thats their choice and i am sure we could arrange it if theres a tit for tat tax punishments ,as we import more than we sell to the EU then the ball is in our court

Edited by chesters1
  • Like 1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

However, under a hard Brexit, UK farmers exporting to Europe could face punishing tariffs despite continuing to meet the same strict rules. Skimmed milk exported into the EU from outside the single market attracts a tariff of 74 per cent, while butter is slapped with a 63 per cent tariff and cheddar an additional 43 per cent. A tariff of 53 per cent is levied on wheat exports. Red meat attracts the highest tariffs of all, with charges on frozen beef carcasses reaching 160 per cent of their value. “At those kinds of prices, it’s difficult to see many European customers being up for trade with the UK,” said Withers.

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/general-election/food-sector-faces-terrifying-tariffs-after-hard-brexit-1-4345486

Thought better of you than reposting scaremongering like that Cory.

  • Like 1

"My imaginary friend doesn't like your imaginary friend is no basis for armed conflict...."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thought better of you than reposting scaremongering like that Cory.

Why is it scaremongering? Is it true or is it false.?

 

Is it my fault that all the tw@ts that have been clamouring for this self harm have not thought it through? Do you know how many countries we have FTAs with because we are in the EU? How long do you think it will take to negotiate them all again from scratch?

 

At least I post links to proper grown-ups newspapers and not from the effing Blue Rinse Beano Daily Express like Barry "Hurricane"Luxton.

Edited by corydoras

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Smt, on 17 Nov 2017 - 11:55, said:

You are in cloud cuckoo land Barry. The UK market is not as important to the EU as you've been told by the Express. I've already provided authoritative links to illustrate this. The single market gives all EU countries a supreme trade advantage with the other 26 members and this alone is more important than trade with the UK. Also, the power of the EU single market has meant it has struck much better deals with countries outside of the EU than individual countries could on their own (countries like China, Canada, Brazil, India etc). All members realise the massive value of the single market (it's only the UK that doesn't). And they are not going to jeopardise that for the UK. Remember that the EU deals as a single unit. Individual countries cannot make their own trade deals.

 

In the end either the UK accepts the conditions of the single market (inc. jurisdiction of the European court) or it doesn't. It is either in or out. The only slight alternative is via EFTA where we'd still have to accept the EU court and we'd have to pay a fair bit for the privilege of access... and of course, have no say whatsoever in running it. A fairly stupid alternative to our current position as we gain nothing we have not already got but lose a lot.

 

Anyway. Grimsby recently realised the damage that their vote will cause their most important industry and top employer (such that they want special treatment). Now it's Cornwall's turn.... Wales next maybe? The North East?

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cornwall-council-appeal-government-crops-rotting-migrant-labour-a8049391.html

 

With our Leave vote the UK has shot itself in the foot (or is it he head?) and, as Remainers have said all along, in the main it will be those that voted Leave that will most feel the pain from it.

 

The turkeys voted for Christmas.

 

Absolute cobblers moosh. Grimsby, one trader commented and the remainiacs where all over it like a rash. It's since been discounted by yet another Grimsby trader. Don't tell me that because this first geezer imports 90% of his fish from the eu to process the u k position is imperative that it remains, give us a break. The worst thing for the u k fishing industry when the u k waters where given away, we are now going to take them back live with it or not, I couldn't care less if you are a misery guts over it. As for e u trade, tell me just how many e u countries do the u k rely on for export trade, you can work that one out buster. I also care not one jot if you don't like the facts posted just because they originate from the express, the words coming out from video links for example cannot be changed from black to white, so again I couldn't give a flying fig if you don't like the link, live with it.

The u k government has already made it abundantly clear, it's leaving the e u, including the political tit, if you want to continue suckling go move somewhere and carry on as is. That includes the customs union and also the single market. It has too many add ons and the u k electorate have voted. Out really does mean out, live with it sonny.

 

have some more facts, do like this guy, he's my euro mep who voted to be out of a job when we leave:

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/879885/Brexit-news-UK-trade-tariff-GDP-world-bank-prediction-EU-European-Union-video

Edited by barry luxton

Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.


New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.

Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.

Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.

new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.

Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We and our partners use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences, repeat visits and to show you personalised advertisements. By clicking “I Agree”, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. However, you may visit Cookie Settings to provide a controlled consent.