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Healthy Rivers


Jeffwill

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If only it were that simple!

 

I assume from your location you have few gravel pits in your area? Whilst it's realistic to protect small commercial fisheries it's prohibitively expensive to protect gravel pits. The problem is their sheer size coupled in some cases by their isolation. This is why angling organisations have been lobbying for grants for specialist fencing.

 

I'm a huge fan of otters. Indeed I used to belong to the Otter Trust and I've paintings and pottery of otters throughout the house. Not surprising really as I run a 160 acre nature reserve. The costs of running it are largely met by letting out two of the gravel pits on the reserve to anglers.

 

In lowland areas such as mine the reintroduction of otters would be a disaster for many fisheries, especially specimen carp ones. Thankfully, the authorities have listened to reason and such reintroductions have been stopped.

Yes, you are right, there are few gravel pits in my immediate area.

 

Another issue here is that we have never really lost our otters, well not to the same extent as more easterly counties. Plus of course we have the added bonus (?) of polecats. Also, as a matter of interest one of the earliest inland cormorant roosts recorded in the UK!).

 

Strangely I have never heard any complaints from the local pool fishermen about otter predation and we do have some significant pools around here. Redmire to mention just one!

 

Perhaps some of the otter introductions in other areas have been made without proper thought regarding natural prey but, being involved in a similar line of work I think that that is highly unlikely regarding works sanctioned under licence by EN. As you say, it is not simple. To try and recreate a balance when one side of the scales has gone 'digital and metric' and you are adding grains/drams/oz to the other side you will never succeed in attaining the 'perfect' balance. One of the issues we do have in the UK is a requirement to fit in with EU rules and regulations regarding habitat and wildlife conservation. My fear is that we will end up with too few of too many species to set a balance.

 

The post has (strangely enough :rolleyes:) got a little sidetracked from otters eating river fish to stocked pools now. So some of the posts have involved general rather than specific information.

 

As you rightly say, the re-introduction of otters to areas where there are lots of commercial fishing pools could have significant financial implications, and as you said again they have now been stopped. Over time though as I'm sure you are aware the otters will return because their (and other aquatic animls including fish) habitat is being restored.

 

If you saw my comments on the 'emotive' journalism in the otter predation thread you'll see that I'm not anti fish in pools but, if some kind of commonsense is displayed by 'some' anglers and 'some' pool owners and 'most' journalists a gradual increase in otter population need not be a serious issue. Some of the above just need to realise that these fish, although their livelihood are not the be all and end all as regards the 'big picture'.

 

As regards your site I have obviously read a lot about it through various threads on these fora and I take my hat off to you. It must be bloody hard work and it sounds as if you have a great ecological balance and happy anglers in a commercial setting. I'd love to see it sometime.

 

As well as being a keen angler, part of my job involves conducting otter surveys for local authorities, planning applications, private landowners etc. I have also had not insignificant experience in rearing young game birds with no predation problems even with foxes, polecats, otters, weasels, stoats badgers, snakes, rats, birds of prey etc. etc. all abundant in the local area, just by good planning and anticipation of problems (and no doubt some luck) and a lot of expensive fencing that I paid for!

 

I'm not just a pretty face you know :crazy:

Edited by Worms

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

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Are we as anglers not the self-imposed keepers of our waterways? Most of us would like to think so, since we keep banging on about what's best. If this is the case, we have an automatic duty to look after all indigenous animals that live on out waterways, including otters. Every animal that lives in our waterways plays some part in the balance and maintenance of those same waterways and for us to decide what can and cannot live in those waters, is just another example of man interfering were we know least.

 

....Andy....

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"I envy not him that eats better meat than I do, nor him that is richer, or that wears better clothes than I do. I envy nobody but him, and him only, that catches more fish than I do"

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Are we as anglers not the self-imposed keepers of our waterways? Most of us would like to think so, since we keep banging on about what's best. If this is the case, we have an automatic duty to look after all indigenous animals that live on out waterways, including otters. Every animal that lives in our waterways plays some part in the balance and maintenance of those same waterways and for us to decide what can and cannot live in those waters, is just another example of man interfering were we know least.

 

....Andy....

Too true, well said. Just a shame that the "most of us..." you refer to isn't all of us

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

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That's nonsense, many large fish have been chewed on after most probably dying of natural causes. All kinds of predators and vermine mamalian and featherd will have a munch on a dead fish. Just because a specimine fish is dead and has been half eaten doesn't mean it's an Otter kill.

 

There are numbers of cases where specimen carp, barbel and pike have been dragged up the bank and had had their insides eaten by otters. Obviously it's impossible to prove otters actually killed the fish, but I suspect in most cases they did. Otters are quite capable of tackling large fish and they don't need to eat carrion unless their preferred food is in short supply.

 

I am not vilifying otters. I believe the biomass of fish will balance out in most waters, but the balance will often be at the expense of the larger fish, so in simple terms one 5lb chub would be replaced by twenty 4oz chub. Some waters will cope better than others, but big fish in small waters would seem to be at particular risk.

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It depends on how we see our waterways.

Do we see them as a resource that that supports a diversity of wildlife?

Or, do we see them as just fisheries?

 

I've heard many anglers say we are the 'guardians of the waterways', but is that only for selfish reasons?

 

Most on here know my views on purely commercial 'fisheries', and the stocking policies that go with, and spread out from them. (Not to my liking to say the least).

 

I have heard of some of the 'special', named fish that are reputed to have been killed by otters.

I suspect some have, but I haven't seen any clear published evidence to prove the claims.

Many of these 'special' fish are old fish, and have been caught many times. It's a fact of nature that as things get old they slow down and weaken, and become easy prey for predators. This allows younger, stronger fish to grow on.

The only thing some anglers are concerned with is how big the fish grow, and how can we make them grow bigger,and faster.

Stocking a water with specimen sized fish, is done for only one reason, to boost the ego of the angler, and thus create money if it's a commercial water.

 

One of the antis arguments against angling, is that our concerns are purely for selfish reasons. Judging by some of the comments I hear on discussions like this, they are being proved right.

 

John.

Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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Put it this way - if it comes down to seeing anglers on the bank or seeing otters, I'd rather it's never put to a public vote. Likewise, "Fish are for (a) catching and throwing back for fun (b) feeding otters" is unlikely to get much public support for (a).

Edited by Steve Walker
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Guest tigger
There are numbers of cases where specimen carp, barbel and pike have been dragged up the bank and had had their insides eaten by otters. Obviously it's impossible to prove otters actually killed the fish, but I suspect in most cases they did. Otters are quite capable of tackling large fish and they don't need to eat carrion unless their preferred food is in short supply.

 

I am not vilifying otters. I believe the biomass of fish will balance out in most waters, but the balance will often be at the expense of the larger fish, so in simple terms one 5lb chub would be replaced by twenty 4oz chub. Some waters will cope better than others, but big fish in small waters would seem to be at particular risk.

 

 

 

I disagree Grandma, Otters as with most creatures that hunt for a living target the young and week prey as it's the easiest to catch and uses less energy. Also Otters don't just eat fish they eat crayfish and many other bits of protein. Otters don't go for the biggest fish. The only time they would probably target specimine fish is if there's a shortage of food or if the fish was weak and old. Lets face it Otters are a native species that should be admired and encouraged not shunned just because they survive on fish. If a fishery is loosing some fish to Otters then the fishery should introduce some fresh stock and surley they could get a tax reduction. There are far worse things for the rivers and waters to worry about such as the Pollution problem that wipes out countless fish (along with god knows what else) regardless of their size large or small........how on earth can anyone moan about a few otters scratching out a living when we have far worse threats to fish stocks?

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Are we as anglers not the self-imposed keepers of our waterways? Most of us would like to think so, since we keep banging on about what's best. If this is the case, we have an automatic duty to look after all indigenous animals that live on out waterways, including otters. Every animal that lives in our waterways plays some part in the balance and maintenance of those same waterways and for us to decide what can and cannot live in those waters, is just another example of man interfering were we know least.

 

....Andy....

 

i see myself as a self imposed keeper of our waterways and wildlife in general, it is a shame many people dont see it this way (like those we seen on saturday) and will be the same people moaning when there is not a lot of wilderness left for them to destroy.

Owner of Tacklesack.co.uk


Moderator at The-Pikers-Pit.co.uk

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I disagree Grandma, Otters as with most creatures that hunt for a living target the young and week prey as it's the easiest to catch and uses less energy. Also Otters don't just eat fish they eat crayfish and many other bits of protein. Otters don't go for the biggest fish. The only time they would probably target specimine fish is if there's a shortage of food or if the fish was weak and old. Lets face it Otters are a native species that should be admired and encouraged not shunned just because they survive on fish. If a fishery is loosing some fish to Otters then the fishery should introduce some fresh stock and surley they could get a tax reduction. There are far worse things for the rivers and waters to worry about such as the Pollution problem that wipes out countless fish (along with god knows what else) regardless of their size large or small........how on earth can anyone moan about a few otters scratching out a living when we have far worse threats to fish stocks?

in the recent cold spell my local river had some pretty big fish killed dragged up the bank and the gills eaten out by otter very big perch and very big barbel were affected. now my guess is that when the water is cold all fish big and small slow down and dont move very much making a 18lb barbel as easy to catch as a 2oz roach or a cray so i think its wrong to say otters wont go for the biggest fish when clearly they do as for re stocking who is going to restock 18lb barbel and 5lb perch ect once these fish are gone they're gone and we could have to wait 20 or 30 years for fish of that size reestablish themselves in the river. so i find it very hard to get exited about otter being on our stretch

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