Ultimate bobbin

[Kappa]

Maybe, but I think this another one of those things where two people reach two different conclusions from the same data! I see it that the fish was hooked so well that it wasn't able to throw the hook (it was properly nailed), and that therefore the rig is good. It was square in the bottom lip and wasn't going anywhere. I think it just spent two minutes making itself as hooked as it could be! I'm sure that 9 times out of 10 it would have pulled line off the baitrunner in the normal way, but even so I reckon I could have left it like that for an hour and it still would have been on the end. I can handle the odd wierd bite if they're hooked that well.

 

True true,just a theory, all to easy to make the data fit the theory rather than the other way around! I've got a bit obsessed about rigs and bite indication for this season. Nothing worse than hovering by the rod unsure whether to strike or not! I hope my plan will work this season!

 

I wonder if some of the Wingham bream are duffers or feed slightly differently than the other so get caught more. I'm convinced people get the bream in their swim more often than we think but don't even know they are there! Question is why don't they get caught? Sure if they are really having it you'll get one or two but what if they are just browsing? I wonder if you set up to catch a bream as soon as it gets in your swim you'd get more over the season but less chance of a multiple catch?

 

Incidentally anyone want a show of hands on whether they prefer heavy or light bobbins? I prefer heavy.

 

Rich

[Dick Dastardly]

I meant to write a "summary" of my "definates" on the bream thread but heres a couple here that have been touched on in the recent threads.In pretty much order of "how definate I am"!

 

1. Gravel pit big bream definately dont patrol like mere bream.

 

2. Pits such as Wingham dont have a thermocline (too shallow)

 

3. Never had a problem hooking bream when a definate run has occured.No matter what rig or hook length.

 

4. Only time Ive had deep hooked bream is when using worms on "traditional" long tails.I dont use any over 18"-2' for worms corn or maggots even on my running rigs.Still use 3'plus ones for flake though.

 

5. All the waters Ive caught consistantly on Ive fished at a minimum of 30m out.

 

6. Never caught a double figure bream much after midnight or before 8 in the evening. (thats out of well over 50 doubles and on 6 waters)

 

So only 6 definates.

 

 

Interesting to read the bit Den posted about "Dai" he seems to have reached very similar conclussions to us.

 

Why dont/wont I be using short hook link fixed rigs this year? basicly because I dont feel they will give me any advantage (see 3.) and because I will be using non small fish proof baits a running rig will alow me to judge if my bait has been striped .Something a fixed rig wont.

 

I know Steve B will disagree about the thermocline but its a subject that they love to murder on both IFM and OU courses! I think it probable that the varied depth and extensive features offer varying degrees of temperature purely due to the way any warming or cooling is influenced by them.

 

Phi,Ive never been that worried about undertow and its effect on fish.Read all the literature on the subject and having been a diver thought I knew all about it..........untill I watched Sharkbytes underwater footage taken at Wingham! Search it out on here and take a look at how the tench has to swim against it and the food/bait reacts.Made me re think my long term stance on its relevance.

 

Bait wise Im going to carry on as usual and just accept the eel problem (to an extent) I will be using a split aproach this year with four rods used with two areas baited.Both areas will be baited on the "light dusting" principle with lots of small items but little food value.One will be fished over with "animal" baits (live maggot or most likely worm) and the other with "non animal", most likely flake or corn dependant on small fish activity. I will definately NOT be using dead maggot in the feed full stop this year as I believe it was a very big factor in my eel "problems" last year (and the years before really!)

 

Im also going to be targetting the same type of feature this year but from a different angle (Im going to bait and cast up between parralel bars rather than on them or their slopes from the ends of them) but Im going to target this feature in areas/at ranges its not been done before. I will still have a few sessions on the known "productive" swims/features though as it would be daft not to.

 

Despite my 15.13 comming from less than 30 foot from the bank Im going to return to my normal 30m minimum (see 5!)

 

Im also going to return to my Queenford tactic of permanently marking my "favourite" features real accurately with marker poles and leave them in position for both baiting and fishing.

 

Any tenching will be done in entirely different areas over enbtirely different bait with different methods and simply as something to do while I snooze during the day! Come 6 in the evening back to breaming untill morning (see 6!).

 

 

A lot of this seasons plan has been based on my "6 definates" the failure of attempts at other aproachs in previous seasons and a desire to return to a more "focused" attack by returning to tactics I have confidence in.Last year was poor for me in both rod hours put in and therefore numbers of fish caught.More so I didnt enjoy it as I did not feel happy with what I was trying.Dont mind the blanks as long as I know/feel Ive fished"well". Last year I finnished by feeling that I had "messed" / "played" at it by trying new methods and adopting a general "whatever comes along aproach.Im now definated that you must either target the tench or the bream and cant target both at the same time.For the best of each you need totally different aproachs.

 

Bite indication? well Rich going along with this "stick to what you know" theme Im staying with the bobbins light but a bit newer than my faithfull old "hair grip" ones! (only cause Im a tart though and wanted all four matching and couldnt get a fourth one!).Heavy is fine (even better I would say) for fixed rigs but with running rigs then its obvious I think?

 

Best thing thats come from all of this though is that we all seem pretty decided on the baiting up aproach and need to try new areas so it will be interesting to see how we all get on. Also after much disscussion re rigs,baits,baiting we all seem happy enough in what we each have chosen to do.

 

Oh incidently I had seriously considered trying Lutra's mashed boillie aproach but couldnt get the supply of bait that I had hoped for and due to my present finances cant afford to buy enough in even if I do make my own.But things change and if a freebie boillie situation does arise I will certainly try it in one of my two areas.Possibly replacing the flake/corn option I dont know.

Edited March 29, 2009 by BUDGIE

[phil hackett]

Phi,Ive never been that worried about undertow and its effect on fish.Read all the literature on the subject and having been a diver thought I knew all about it..........untill I watched Sharkbytes underwater footage taken at Wingham! Search it out on here and take a look at how the tench has to swim against it and the food/bait reacts.Made me re think my long term stance on its relevance.

 

Budgie had a search, but I can't find the vid. Anybody want to post a link to it who knows where it is?

 

Regarding undertow was it undetow? Water going the opposite way to the wind blowing on the back swash . And if it was, how far out was the footage shot? Or was it orbital drag. Orbital drag can touch the bottom of shallow waters if its a good blow. As all orbitals spin clockwise and in deep water (15+ft) stack up on top of each other to a depth of around 10ft. This is the reason I disagree with Den's statement of mixing on deep waters during the period I said.

 

In shallow waters several orbitals on a good blow would drag along the bottom. This dragging process could give the appearance of undertow because of the clockwise spinning process. It could also be quite powerful if several of the larger ones are dragging along the bottom I suppose.

Edited March 30, 2009 by phil hackett

[Dick Dastardly]

Phil I think its on the AN Wingham Fish In 2008 thread? will take a look but if some one else has a link to it on Utube?

 

Phil can you explain this orbital thing a bit more please as it a new one to me.

[Dick Dastardly]

Here you go Phill this shows some of Waynes footage-

 

http://www.vimeo.com/user925792/videos

[poledark]

Phil, my definition of undertow is that which is caused by the wind. It can vary in direction and strength according to the direction and strength of this wind.

 

I have actually been able to trot a float on many occasions using the 'tow, and 'tow is present on almost all reasonable (2 acres or more) waters.

 

When you say "orbital" do you mean this is caused by the earths rotation?

 

Den

[tincatinca]

The original video showing the undertow. It was also interesting re reading Dens reports from the last fish in

 

[Anderoo]

I like bobbins to be as light as I can get away with - as long as they drop back easily and are stable in the breeze/wind and undertow. I only add weight to mine if I have to. I don't like the idea of heavy bobbins pulling the mainline off the bottom, so slack lines and light(ish) bobbins for me.

 

Any tenching will be done in entirely different areas over enbtirely different bait with different methods and simply as something to do while I snooze during the day! Come 6 in the evening back to breaming untill morning (see 6!).

Interesting isn't it - I bet you wouldn't have said that a couple of years ago! I agree completely (and have also changed my mind over the last season), you can't do both effectively at the same time. My tenching will also be in totally different areas and with different baits. However, I do expect to pick up several tench on the 'bream' spots and baits. I will therefore be calling these 'bream and tench spots' so I can count them , because there will almost certainly be some very big tench caught this year.

 

Best thing thats come from all of this though is that we all seem pretty decided on the baiting up aproach and need to try new areas so it will be interesting to see how we all get on. Also after much disscussion re rigs,baits,baiting we all seem happy enough in what we each have chosen to do.

Yes, it's been a fantastic discussion over several threads, and it is interesting that we've all come to our own conclusions from the same data. I feel that last season was dipping our collective toes in the waters, and that this season we're more focussed and have much more of a plan. If that's not an invitation for a completely blank year I don't know what is, but I have a little feeling that between us we should do OK this year.

 

I say between us because I do feel like it's a team effort, and I will be over the moon if anyone catches one of those amazing fish, including of course those at the fish-in.

 

Personally, I feel ready now (I never thought I'd say that!). Rigs and hookbait are completely settled in my mind, and baiting up (content, timing, quantity and method) is one big tick. This is one of the biggest things to get right I reckon (second only to location) and to feel confident in that is a massive psychological boost. Location is still a bit of a lottery, but I have some new areas to try depending on the conditions, and some 'known' spots that I may drop into if the conditions really suit them.

 

I've bought all the tackle I need, respooled my reels, and am now just waiting for the whistle!

[lutra]

I've bought all the tackle I need, respooled my reels, and am now just waiting for the whistle!

When do you think that will be Anderoo?

 

Ive caught well up in scotland in the deeper holes from mid April and i would think you could knock 2/3 weeks of that in S/W England.

[Anderoo]

When do you think that will be Anderoo?

 

Ive caught well up in scotland in the deeper holes from mid April and i would think you could knock 2/3 weeks of that in S/W England.

 

It'll be some time around the end of April/beginning of May, I'm busy every weekend until then

 

Luckily the trout season opens on Wednesday