Ultimate bobbin

[Dick Dastardly]

Interesting isn't it - I bet you wouldn't have said that a couple of years ago!

 

I say between us because I do feel like it's a team effort, and I will be over the moon if anyone catches one of those amazing fish, including of course those at the fish-in.

 

 

Your totally right! For years my tench fishing (or should I say catching) fell into (in reflection) several different catagories-

 

Fishing for tench intentionaly on waters that only contained them (by that I mean didnt have massive heads of bream or carp)

 

Catching them whilst carp fishing.

 

Catching them whilst intentionally targeting bream on waters that had a high head of both.

 

Both of the first two examples will remain the same and I think are ok but the last one!!! After fishing Wingham Im convinced that a different aproach is needed.Yes you will pick up the odd tench whilst breaming but no where near as many as if you were to intentionally target them.Also no where near as many as if you were targetting carp either! I think location and baiting being the major differences.

 

Yes I did catch some cracking tench whilst breaming on some waters but in reflection my aproach definately didnt realise the waters true tench potentials.

 

Ive never caught a double figure tench and would like to do so but after last season Im prepared to concentrate more on the bream by setting out my stall for them and if a tinca comes along its just a bonus.Plenty of time to target them specifically at a later date should I not fluke one!

[Anderoo]

Definitely. Baiting (and bait), location and time of day are the main differences I think. Also, the areas of the lake, come to think of it. For the tench I want really tight and light baiting (just maggots and hemp, really) to the biggest feature out there, fishing fake maggots over the top, from dawn to lunchtime(ish), and as close to thick weed as possible.

 

But I don't want to compromise or disturb the spots I'm baiting and fishing for bream, so any tench fishing will be in 'secondary' spots a good distance away. There's one large area of the lake that fished extremely well for tench last year where a bream is very unlikely. Not because they don't go there (I'm sure they do) but it's just such a complicated maze of big humps and bumps there are no obvious routes or channels through, so picking the right spot really is pot luck.

 

Similarly, if I'm all out for bream, I'm going to be in areas free of weed. That will instantly bring down the likelihood of tench.

 

I will probably have one or two proper tench sessions in late May/early June, but apart from that, everything will be aimed at the bream. I had a fair few daytime tench from bream spots last year, but nothing like the number and size when I was fishing properly for them.

 

Oh, don't forget the perch...

Edited March 30, 2009 by Anderoo

[phil hackett]

Phil I think its on the AN Wingham Fish In 2008 thread? will take a look but if some one else has a link to it on Utube?

 

Phil can you explain this orbital thing a bit more please as it a new one to me.

Thank for the link Budgie interesting! It could be down to one of three factors, and from the vid I can't really tell.

Factor 1 heating of the water and convection courents. This happens in still periods on shallow waters. Again it's driven in a clockwise motion.

Factor 2 Wind driven orbitals.

Factor 3 and/or a cobination of both.

 

Here are some drawings to explain what wind driven orbitals are Wave_generated_Orbitals.doc

PS the top circle is missing off Fig 2 Don't know why probably in the either somewhere

Edited March 30, 2009 by phil hackett

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks Phil.Do you think that this orbital movement could create the type of current shown on the video?

[phil hackett]

Thanks Phil.Do you think that this orbital movement could create the type of current shown on the video?

Yes under the right wind conditions.

How to explain it? In light winds it's likely you'd only have one or two orbital at or just under the the surface but on top of each other, these would be quite small. The rule of thumb of orbitals is they are the size in circumference to the size of each round top wave you see coming across the water. In very strong winds you get big surface orbitals with decreasing orbitals as the depth descends. As shown in the drawing Fig 1.

 

A lesser wind and the size and number would be somewhere in between the two sizes. There will be a calculation somewhere of the orbital spin speed to corresponding wind speeds. Sorry I don't know it, or have it any of the books I have. You should also have to take into consideration the smaller the deeper orbitals are, the less they rotate through the dissipation of energy. However, on a strong wind I do think they (smaller orbitals) would still have enough energy to move stuff as seen on the video.

 

If you can tell me what wind strength, roughly, there was on the day when it was shot, how deep the water was and how far from the bank it was shot. I may be able to give an explanation why the flow was so strong.

[poledark]

Pretty easy really, large lake, fairly deep, good breeze blowing the top water into one end. Lower water being pushed back = strong current.

 

Happens every time the wind blows

 

Den

Edited April 1, 2009 by poledark

[Anderoo]

Pretty easy really, large lake, fairly deep, good breeze blowing the top water into one end. Lower water being pushed back = strong current.

 

Happens every time the wind blows

 

Den

 

Yes, and what makes it so unpredictable at gravel pits which are crammed with long, shallow bars is that (unlike a featureless bowl-type water like the meres) you effectively have miles of margins all over the place, so there's no place where this won't occur, and even a small change in wind direction can have a very large effect.

 

It makes my head hurt when I really think about it!

[tincatinca]

When looking at a open expanse of water with little or no restriction along its bottom like most Meres then I am sure that it would not be too difficult to determine what the effect of the wind and undertow would be however with a water that has the topography of Wingham I think that it is an entirely different ball game.

When the mass of water in the deep channels is moving, what is happeming in the shallower channels and what effect does this have. Does it not increase the pressure and the flow down the smaller channels. It would also stand to reason that when the water is moving en masse around the lake there would be areas where flow could be produced in both directions say along the bars ie from the deep centre channel toward the bank and vice versa. With the numerous humps bumps and bars creating baffles it would also seem reasonable to assume that there would also be areas where opposing flow would negate each other and forms areas of relatively slack water. It really is a mind bender. Anyone fancy making a scale model of the lake where dye sticks could be strategically placed to show what happens when wind blows from various directions using an appropriately placed fan

[Anderoo]

When looking at a open expanse of water with little or no restriction along its bottom like most Meres then I am sure that it would not be too difficult to determine what the effect of the wind and undertow would be however with a water that has the topography of Wingham I think that it is an entirely different ball game.

When the mass of water in the deep channels is moving, what is happeming in the shallower channels and what effect does this have. Does it not increase the pressure and the flow down the smaller channels. It would also stand to reason that when the water is moving en masse around the lake there would be areas where flow could be produced in both directions say along the bars ie from the deep centre channel toward the bank and vice versa. With the numerous humps bumps and bars creating baffles it would also seem reasonable to assume that there would also be areas where opposing flow would negate each other and forms areas of relatively slack water. It really is a mind bender. Anyone fancy making a scale model of the lake where dye sticks could be strategically placed to show what happens when wind blows from various directions using an appropriately placed fan

 

Funny, I mentioned that idea to Steve a while back! If I recall correctly, he said it wouldn't be possible to get any meaningful results from it because we wouldn't be able to replicate the topography with enough accuracy. It could be a fascinating excercise though!

 

The other thing is that I'm still working on the assumption that the bream don't like strong undertow - but maybe they do!

 

Mind-bending - exactly

[tincatinca]

Funny, I mentioned that idea to Steve a while back! If I recall correctly, he said it wouldn't be possible to get any meaningful results from it because we wouldn't be able to replicate the topography with enough accuracy. It could be a fascinating excercise though!

 

The other thing is that I'm still working on the assumption that the bream don't like strong undertow - but maybe they do!

 

Mind-bending - exactly

I can certainly understand Steves reasoning and whist a model would not give definative answers I think that it may give a good insight into what actually happens and as you have also said, is it a definate fact that Bream do not like flow. There is only one thing left to do then. Learn how to metamorphisise