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Big bream


Anderoo

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As this topic is now getting quite big, I thought it would be useful to summarise everything so far:

 

Rigs

- May not matter, but running rigs better with small, natural baits (so you can tell when nuisance fish have stripped the bait), semi-fixed OK with bigger, hardier baits

- No benefit in hair-rigging small, natural baits

 

Baits

- Small naturals probably best, but there are associated problems with perch and (especially) eels

- Small baits may get eaten first, larger, heavier baits eaten later

- Cocktail baits seem to be effective

- Critically balanced baits effective

- Perhaps a bait presented off the bottom may achieve a quicker take, but could be problems with foul-hooking?

- Flavourings seem to work

- Fake baits could be an answer, if flavoured effectively?

 

Groundbait

- Amount of groundbait important – enough to stop a shoal but not enough to fill them up

- Not much actual food, but maximum attraction (fishmeal and brasem both good)

- Hemp not necessary

- Need a ‘dusting’ of groundbait, either by boat or spod

- Timing important – get groundbait out in one go before evening and get everything ready in advance of dusk

- Different sizes of food items important, as different amounts of suck required

 

Location

- The big problem!

- No ‘patrol routes’

- don’t like feeding in areas of heavy weed

- Can be ambushed at pinch points, as they move between areas of the lake

- Can be targeted and caught very close in

- May not like feeding in strong undertow

- Base/slope of bars good areas – maybe helps them feed (have to tip up less)?

- Depth of water important, best to fish several depths in one swim if possible

- All things considered, fishing into a warm wind is probably good

 

Conditions

- Settled weather important, big changes in conditions bad

- Almost entirely night feeders

- Don’t like feeding in periods of a big moon, whether obscured by cloud or not

 

Behaviour

- Small groups of very large fish

- Very mobile

- ‘Graze’ as they move about

- Feed entirely on small, natural food

- Probably come across your bait, have a look, then swim away. Come back later that night, maybe have a mouthful, then go away again, Keep returning until they’re feeding confidently, small items first (as they get kicked up off the bottom?), larger items later

- Intentionally roll over/kick up food to make it easier to eat? Pick it up in mid-water.

- Feed every day

- Don’t get spooked off areas where they’ve been caught before

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

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Good summary............one thing I would look at though where Wingham is concerned. I only know the places/area where 3 bream have been caught, so for starters I would fish these areas hard.

 

Den

"When through the woods and forest glades I wanderAnd hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees;When I look down from lofty mountain grandeur,And hear the brook, and feel the breeze;and see the waves crash on the shore,Then sings my soul..................

for all you Spodders. https://youtu.be/XYxsY-FbSic

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Never seen a foul hooked one as a result ofd a two hook rig. Strangely enough never saw any problems with the second hook catching on weed etc whilst playing a fish (my biggest concern).Ive also spoke to many match anglers (mainly older guys from the North of England) who routinely use/used such set ups and they told me that they had never had any problems.In fact only story Ive been told was of the second hook snagging a keepnet.I think this may be down to the very short hook lengths used.

 

I feel that when they are feeding hard on the bottom they are more "intense" than when taking food off bottom.I think the off bottom bait could be more effective for fish just moving through though as its more visual.

 

Ive only ever used two hook rigs for big bream,never tried them for "match" bream. At Queenford a lot of the fish came to the top hook when these types of rig were used but due to the nature of the bottom ie heavy weed in many places Im not so sure that the top hook was always off bottom. Another reason for the top hooks sucsess that Ive heard being discussed is that it enables the bait to "behave" differently.I really dont know.

 

I totally agree with Den and as my time on Wingham has been so limited this year Im going to focus on the "known" areas as well.There are certainly morer than the three Den mentions but some are certainly more "regular" than others.

 

I also agree that your summary is about right. So hard to draw definate conclusions though as you have found simply down to the fact that not enough fish are caught to have enough information.

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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I kind of agree about fishing the known areas (that's what I've been doing), however vast areas of Wingham have never been seriously fished, so there may be some even better spots still to be discovered... even better, find swims which have access to known areas and good looking new spots.

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

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  • 4 weeks later...

I've been reading Peter Stone's 'Gravel Pit' book, and Dick Walker's 'Stillwater Angling' and a couple of things leapt out at me regarding bream.

 

Firstly, big bream are fairly predatory (we've all heard the stories of giants being caught on lures and flies from pike and trout waters - when you think about it, what are the odds of that?). They adore fishmeal, so I suppose it goes a little way to explain that. If you could fish a water containing big bream and were allowed to use fish baits (and there weren't lots of nuisance species such as eels and pike) I wonder what the results would be?

 

Secondly, bream apparently have comparatively small stomachs. This would explain the 'grazing' behaviour which is uncommon in other species, and also why big bream come into your swim, have a few mouthfuls and wander off again, only to return some time later for another mouthful. I expect this is their natural feeding state - if you have a swim full of big bream tearing up the bottom and really feeding hard, I'd put money on it being because you've got the baiting perfect and competitive feeding has developed, probably towards the end of the night.

 

This also emphasises the importance of getting your groundbait right - lots of attraction with hardly any actual food. It sounds like it's very easy to fill them up, despite their size.

 

They also apparently have very good eyesight.

 

As I said before, it would be interesting to hear people's views and experiences - I have almost zero bream experience and am just trying to learn as much as possible.

Edited by Anderoo

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

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Oh, and another thing... :rolleyes:

 

Another interesting snippet from Peter Stone - big bream get used to feeding on very small food items, and get used to the amount of suck needed to feed on them. In clear water the bream can eat bigger items by looking at them and adjusting the suck required. In coloured water, they revert to their natural feeding state and use their 'normal' suck, meaning that larger items are likely to be left alone - unless they're critically balanced.

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

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Don't quite follow that Andrew, surely the bream are constantly adjusting the amount they have to suck....some bits sucked from further away (even only an inch more) will need to be sucked up differently.

 

Den

"When through the woods and forest glades I wanderAnd hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees;When I look down from lofty mountain grandeur,And hear the brook, and feel the breeze;and see the waves crash on the shore,Then sings my soul..................

for all you Spodders. https://youtu.be/XYxsY-FbSic

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Den, I think what he means is this: bream feed by grazing, wandering about and popping their head down for a little mouthful now and again. Big bream live in rich waters, with food everywhere, so to feed all they have to do is lower their head and suck. As they feed on small items, they use a certain amount of suck - enough to pick up their usual food items. They can aford to not pick up larger items, it doesn't matter if they're not eaten. If the water is clear enough they can use more suck to pick up a larger identified item. If not, big bream generally don't use enough suck to pick up larger items including baits - unless they're really feeding hard on a baited spot or a larger bait has some bouyancy added.

 

I've nothing to back this up, just thought it was interesting :)

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

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The odd big bream (12lbs+ is that big? ) that get caught on boilies in my lakes, would cause a problem with that hypothesis. They don't have to be 15+ to be classed as big, but would surely be just as old and wise :)

 

Den

"When through the woods and forest glades I wanderAnd hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees;When I look down from lofty mountain grandeur,And hear the brook, and feel the breeze;and see the waves crash on the shore,Then sings my soul..................

for all you Spodders. https://youtu.be/XYxsY-FbSic

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