Big bream

[gozzer]

Just a rumour then Budgie.

 

In regard to undertow, this is an instance of one of the worst days I've experienced.

 

A few years ago I went to Nostell Priory, we arrived late and had to go all round the lake to find an empty spot. It was the only spot without cover and there was a strong wind blowing down the lake. This was made worse by the fact that the wind was funneled through a bridge and the lake shallowed where we had to fish.

The under tow was so bad that my normal big waggler set up was useless and a 1.5 oz lead (the biggest I had) struggled to hold about 4 rods out. I ended up trying to 'trot' with the undertow like I would a river.

I caught a few small roach and perch by holding back with all the weight down the line.

About 3pm the wind eased and then dropped, within about a half hour I could fish a small waggler to perfection 3 rods out without it hardly moving.

 

So from my experience it doesn't take long to settle down after a good blow. But of course I think it will depend on the size and shape of the water to some extent, and of course how long it has been blowing.

 

John.

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks John that certainly helps confirm my thoughts. I suppose being able to truely understand the undertow would certainly be an excellent guide to locating where a lot of the food ends up after a big blow.And therefore hopefully the fish.

 

I believe they are hoping to show Sharkbytes underwater footage on AN.It clearly shows that the tench is having to swim face into the undertow as it would the current in a river.And having to swim quite strongly at that.

[Anderoo]

Was still light mate around 18.30-19.00 ish.He had just put out a few pouches of corn (a bit further than normal) and cast out after returning from the meeting.

 

Some brands of fake corn (well the stuff Ive got) is bouyant due to it being hollow as oppossed to the plastic itself being bouyant.Might be worth injecting this "void" with flavour as well as soaking? Not sure whar effect various flavour bases would have on the plastic though so would have to experiment.Ive found that oil based rather than EA (Ethyl Alcohol) based flavours last longer.But EA might be able to seep out of the fake bait easier?

 

With sweetcorn (real) though Ive not had any eel/perch problems unless its fished over a bed of live/dead maggots. Its really the rubber maggot thing I want to try ie fishing fake mags over real ones.Would prefer caster but cant afford it!

 

Cheers Budgie, interesting - I'd put carp in the same league as tench when it comes to fake baits. I bet it wouldn't have got taken after dark, but then who knows!

 

I'm the same with caster, I can't afford it. I bet it would be a superb tench bait there though! Instead of method feeders next time, try a rod on a little semi-fixed inline lead, short soft braided hooklength and a couple of fake maggots on the hair and a bag of real (live) maggots on the hook. That's what I've had the majority of my tench on. If I cast a live maggot to the same spot - perch and eels.

 

That's a good idea about injecting hollow corn - I'll look into that. I did soak my fake corn in brasem for a bit of extra attraction, but I don't think it stays on very long once it's been cast out.

 

Just a rumour then Budgie.

 

In regard to undertow, this is an instance of one of the worst days I've experienced.

 

A few years ago I went to Nostell Priory, we arrived late and had to go all round the lake to find an empty spot. It was the only spot without cover and there was a strong wind blowing down the lake. This was made worse by the fact that the wind was funneled through a bridge and the lake shallowed where we had to fish.

The under tow was so bad that my normal big waggler set up was useless and a 1.5 oz lead (the biggest I had) struggled to hold about 4 rods out. I ended up trying to 'trot' with the undertow like I would a river.

I caught a few small roach and perch by holding back with all the weight down the line.

About 3pm the wind eased and then dropped, within about a half hour I could fish a small waggler to perfection 3 rods out without it hardly moving.

 

So from my experience it doesn't take long to settle down after a good blow. But of course I think it will depend on the size and shape of the water to some extent, and of course how long it has been blowing.

 

John.

 

Very useful, thanks John

 

It may not even be worth baiting up in a big wind then, especially spodding groundbait - it could end up all over the place!

[Dick Dastardly]

I did soak my fake corn in brasem for a bit of extra attraction,

 

I dont know why we brought a ticket each! Thats exactly what Im thinking of doing! Should just have brought a "team" ticket ,four rods etc between us all and we could of all took turns to go down there and kip next to them!

 

Seriously though I reckon now more are targetting them and pooling information things should improve a lot.

[Anderoo]

I dont know why we brought a ticket each! Thats exactly what Im thinking of doing! Should just have brought a "team" ticket ,four rods etc between us all and we could of all took turns to go down there and kip next to them!

 

Seriously though I reckon now more are targetting them and pooling information things should improve a lot.

 

 

It'd be cheaper!

 

On the second night I tried a 'stack' of brasem corn - 4 real bits and one bouyant fake one on top - on the other rod, but the wind really picked up and blew hard all night, hence big undertow. (When soaked in brasem they shrivelled up quite a lot, so the bait wasn't that big - it did smell great though!)

 

Now I understand the baiting theory, I reckon it's now almost all down to swim choice. That's why I feel like I need to understand the undertow. Whether that's even possible or not, I don't know

 

Does anyone know how often big bream actually feed? In a rich water it may not be that often (just a guess).

[Dick Dastardly]

The experience Ive had with 8-12lb shoal bream shows they definately feed every day (when the conditions are ok) I could go down the lake several nights on the trot and catch much the same numbers.Individual or small group freak bream I dont know.The waters Ive fished that contain these size fish all suffer from the same set up ie huge fish because there are only a few of them so your never really sure if they arnt feeding or are simply not in the area you choose.My gut reaction though is that they feed every day (conditions permitting) but not always in the same areas.Certainly not "patrol route" style like the mere bream.

 

At this point I best try and explain this "conditions are right" thing Ive said a few times.I think weve discussed this but for others looking in- Ive found big bream (both shoal and freak) to not feed during big moon periods.I base this on the period when I was regularly fishing a big bream water up to 5 evenings a week.A normal evening would see me arrive around 4 in the afternoon,introduce massive amounts of feed,rods out,liners by around 7 and then fish all the way up untill 11.Big moons nothing! not even line bites.Same swim,same time,same tactics etc. Didnt matter if moon was out or obscured by cloud. Now did these fish just not feed then or feed at a different time/elsewhere? I dont know.

 

Also when there has been a prolonged big blow (and the undertow built up to a strong level) its been the same ie nix! once again dont know if they arent feeding or else where.

 

Definately not like preds that feed in cycles I think (in fact best as you can I know) cyprinids in gemneral feed as much as possible. The fish we are targetting are collosal far above the size that they would be normally so considering their diet I should imagine they feed whenever possible (in fact practical would be a better word.

 

One thing Im convinced Im right about though is that "hoovering" fish have specific feeding spells where "grazing" fish most likely " pick" most of the time.I say this as on "hoovering" waters the feeding times are pretty well defined (yes they do change through the season but during any one period are the same) grazing waters (as best as the limited catch results Ive had and heard of from only 3 such waters) the fish get caught (so must be feeding) at quite a wide variety of times.

[Anderoo]

I didn't know that about the moon - I've always been very sceptical of 'moonstrike' predictions, but when information comes from long hours sat behind motionless bobbins I do take notice! Interesting and curious.

 

If they do feed every day, that helps with confidence too. Again, something I didn't know.

 

With the wind, I wonder if a more sheltered spot would be a better bet? If they do feed every day they must be feeding somewhere - or perhaps they're drifting about more, nibbling here and there and just not settling, and so become uncatchable?

 

Here's a killer question (to everyone) - what bait or flavour do bream like but tench don't?

[Dick Dastardly]

At this point I would like to say I hope this thread doesnt just become the domain of the Wingham Bream boys! I would hope it interesting enough for others to read and (from a purely selfish point of veiw!) add their ideas,veiws and experiences.

 

These fish are very different to what we normally come across so all input welcome.It would be nice to think that if one of us does manage one of the real biggies a lot of it will have been down to a "team effort" by AN members.

 

All though Ive quite a bit of experience with big bream and have formed several theories I would just as happily read someone ripping them to pieces based on their own experiences! In fact far more interesting!

[Anderoo]

At this point I would like to say I hope this thread doesnt just become the domain of the Wingham Bream boys! I would hope it interesting enough for others to read and (from a purely selfish point of veiw!) add their ideas,veiws and experiences.

 

These fish are very different to what we normally come across so all input welcome.It would be nice to think that if one of us does manage one of the real biggies a lot of it will have been down to a "team effort" by AN members.

 

All though Ive quite a bit of experience with big bream and have formed several theories I would just as happily read someone ripping them to pieces based on their own experiences! In fact far more interesting!

 

Definitely, please everyone feel free to chip in. I know nothing about all this, I'm just trying to learn as much as possible.

[Dan Dan]

Soemthing I thought about last night after reading this thread was about those rubber worms that sea anglers use. i'm not sure how small you can get them, but mighten they be worth a try? not sure if you can flavour them but again another idea.

 

meat is an underrated bream bait, but on carp waters you'll get pestered. eels too I guess.