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Which tip?


Peter Waller

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Stuart, just curious, you mention using split shot, do you nip it directly to your main line or in the form of a link leger? For me this looks to be a technique well worth exploring.

Right, basically this is what I do, most others will nearly all favour for a free running link ledger,

 

now to to me this is actually inferior and doesn't actually work in how one thinks it works,

My therory is that if you use a lead that is say any lighter than 1 1/2 oz as soon as any fish picks up the bait I can assure anyone that this lead will most definitely move, it won't just sit there on the river bed and allow line to pass through a run ring or swivel eye of the lead and register a bite on the rod tip without moving that lead,

 

I've deliberately tried and tested this tactic in marginal clears swims on many rivers where every fish watched taking the bait all moved the lead, the only time the lead will stay positioned on the river bed and not necessarily move is if one uses any leads above 1 1/2 oz.

 

If this has made sence so far one needs to then realise that if using lead of say 1/4 - 1/2 oz which is what I often use or considerably less it doesn't matter if you set the rig up as free running or actually fixed because the rig in effect will act exactly the same regardless, it's basically a micro bolt rig affect if ones wants to get technical, but what I do is use the lightest amount of split shot that I can get away with,

 

With this in mind all I do is just simply pinch about 3-4 AAA shot directly onto me mainline about 18" away from the hook, couldn't get any simpler as a very light rig,

I've personally never ever had any issues or problems with this basic rig and it's a rig that realy does work for me when a lot of other known tactics can often fail.

Edited by STUART WHITING
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Stuart, thank you, it all makes perfect sense and I like the simplicity of it.

Ok mate, give it a go and you'll clearly see how easy but affective it really is, some of the very best old school chub anglers out there have been using this particular rig / tactic for many years and are still using the basic rig today as I am for the roach and chub aswell,

 

In fairness I'd go to the extent that this rig will work for any coarse fish wheather yer on a pond, lake, pit, reservoir, stream or river

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Right, basically this is what I do, most others will nearly all favour for a free running link ledger,

 

now to to me this is actually inferior and doesn't actually work in how one thinks it works,

My therory is that if you use a lead that is say any lighter than 1 1/2 oz as soon as any fish picks up the bait I can assure anyone that this lead will most definitely move, it won't just sit there on the river bed and allow line to pass through a run ring or swivel eye of the lead and register a bite on the rod tip without moving that lead,

 

I've deliberately tried and tested this tactic in marginal clears swims on many rivers where every fish watched taking the bait all moved the lead, the only time the lead will stay positioned on the river bed and not necessarily move is if one uses any leads above 1 1/2 oz.

 

If this has made sence so far one needs to then realise that if using lead of say 1/4 - 1/2 oz which is what I often use or considerably less it doesn't matter if you set the rig up as free running or actually fixed because the rig in effect will act exactly the same regardless, it's basically a micro bolt rig affect if ones wants to get technical, but what I do is use the lightest amount of split shot that I can get away with,

 

With this in mind all I do is just simply pinch about 3-4 AAA shot directly onto me mainline about 18" away from the hook, couldn't get any simpler as a very light rig,

I've personally never ever had any issues or problems with this basic rig and it's a rig that realy does work for me when a lot of other known tactics can often fail.

 

 

When out trotting I often lay on (float legering really) leaving my bulk shot as they are (as you describe) rather than attaching a loop of mono or a swivel to create a running link. I'm not that sure it hooks the fish everytime as if I don't strike they very often let it go. It's deffo a good method though and I have used it a lot myself.

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When out trotting I often lay on (float legering really) leaving my bulk shot as they are (as you describe) rather than attaching a loop of mono or a swivel to create a running link. I'm not that sure it hooks the fish everytime as if I don't strike they very often let it go. It's deffo a good method though and I have used it a lot myself.

Yea mate, the ultra light basic ledgering rig that I use along with laying on and stret pegging are all classified as old school methods but in the right conditions will still out fish most other techniques,

 

It's like the old saying, don't fix something if it ain't broke and how very true these words can be

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Very good thread this and some great back to basics approach to fishing 'rigs'. We do over complicate things don't we? I mean look at me, I have started using the Korum anti tangle 'system' for Barbel fishing, and although tangles have reduced I reckon the fish do see all this extra 'furniture'. But is seeing enough to spook the fish? Certainly touching the line will spook a shoal of Barbel let alone Roach. So I am just using what I used to do a free running quick change swivel, and always using a anti tangle sleeve to the top of the hook length, and pushing it over the swivel to keep it secure. Result no annoying wrap round leads or feeders.

However missed bites plague me, you have to consider using light leads in low and clear conditions, but any bolt rig effect is minimised, so a drennan ledger stop fixed above the free running swivel will , and does help hit those sharp bites.

The river angle tip up and still water tip down approach is pretty much what I see, and I use tip ups when fishing large rivers, with feeder or lead, at distance. But when fishing close in no need whatsoever, and tip up is very counter productive, I like nothing better than holding the butt, with the rod tip pointing just above the surface, trapping the line with your fore finger you can feel every touch.

The shot on the line approach is a real sensitive simple way to fish, pinning the line down, and you also have a built in bolt effect. But the tackle manufactures hate it....

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Very good thread this and some great back to basics approach to fishing 'rigs'. We do over complicate things don't we? I mean look at me, I have started using the Korum anti tangle 'system' for Barbel fishing, and although tangles have reduced I reckon the fish do see all this extra 'furniture'. But is seeing enough to spook the fish? Certainly touching the line will spook a shoal of Barbel let alone Roach. So I am just using what I used to do a free running quick change swivel, and always using a anti tangle sleeve to the top of the hook length, and pushing it over the swivel to keep it secure. Result no annoying wrap round leads or feeders.

However missed bites plague me, you have to consider using light leads in low and clear conditions, but any bolt rig effect is minimised, so a drennan ledger stop fixed above the free running swivel will , and does help hit those sharp bites.

The river angle tip up and still water tip down approach is pretty much what I see, and I use tip ups when fishing large rivers, with feeder or lead, at distance. But when fishing close in no need whatsoever, and tip up is very counter productive, I like nothing better than holding the butt, with the rod tip pointing just above the surface, trapping the line with your fore finger you can feel every touch.

The shot on the line approach is a real sensitive simple way to fish, pinning the line down, and you also have a built in bolt effect. But the tackle manufactures hate it....

Yea yer right Neil the tackle manufacturers do hate it because there not selling extra unnecessary gadgets and leads,

 

I can see exactly where yer coming from with yer rigs etc but another little basic tip is to back lead, if fishing mid river I'd use a flying back lead ( Korda ) and if I'm fishing the margins which most of the time I very much prefer I then just add a few more AAA shot about another 3-4 ft up the mainline,

 

If I'm fishing the margins I'll use no unnecessary tubing , run rings, plastic clips or swivels etc to me this is just extra junk added to the line and in hind sight isn't really needed,

 

I've got a belief that the more one can make a rig as basic as possible without all the extra gadgets the fishing in the long run should be just as effective, if not better

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Yea yer right Neil the tackle manufacturers do hate it because there not selling extra unnecessary gadgets and leads,

 

I can see exactly where yer coming from with yer rigs etc but another little basic tip is to back lead, if fishing mid river I'd use a flying back lead ( Korda ) and if I'm fishing the margins which most of the time I very much prefer I then just add a few more AAA shot about another 3-4 ft up the mainline,

 

If I'm fishing the margins I'll use no unnecessary tubing , run rings, plastic clips or swivels etc to me this is just extra junk added to the line and in hind sight isn't really needed,

 

I've got a belief that the more one can make a rig as basic as possible without all the extra gadgets the fishing in the long run should be just as effective, if not better

Never used back leads, but I do understand the theory, like the idea of your regarding shot up the line, hence trapping the rig down. Yes KISS, keep it simple stoopid is a good mantra, and your point of dispensing with even the anti tangle sleeve when fishing close in is a good point, besides I underarm anyway so should be fine.

At the moment the rivers are so off colour it's hard to but a bite let alone catch anything, and we got some nice colder days and nights next week too :cold: thinking Grayling on the float rod might be a nice change from staring at a motionless tip :yawn:

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Am I right that the typical feeder rods you buy all have carbon tips? The only glass tips I have as far as I know are screw-in affairs, but modern rods don't have a screw-in facility in the tip ring, so they are not much use. I guess I must be wrong - there must be feeder rods on the market with glass tips? I have a John Wilson Avon Quiver, but I've sanded down the lightest tip so it's much more sensitive.

 

Wow, I'm a hopeless ledger fisherman! A lot of stuff in this thread rings bells. But Stuart, with your upstream roach approach, if you don't use a feeder does that mean you don't bother with baiting up?

 

Peter, you say that bream bashing on the Broads is too easy. I can see you'd get fed up with it, but I've never done it and might like a go. Now I'm semi-retired I aim to go on occasional fishing breaks staying in a b&b for a couple of nights. How big, typically, are the Broads bream, and which is a good river?

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john clarke

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Hi John, The River Yare in the middle reaches, Beauchamp Arms to Rockland Broad for example. The River Waveney, once again the middle reaches, Burgh St Peter up to Beccles. River Thurne, St Bennet's Abbey up to Martham, you really can't go wrong! Broads bream, a good shoal of three to five pounds is not uncommon, five to seven pounds shouldn't be a surprise and ten to twelve is not impossible. I've had several biggies recently off the Waveney but these have all been individual fish, either that or I spooked the others! There are some nice riverside bungalows for hire along the river at Potter Heigham.

 

The Abbey at St Bennet's is no longer active but it is till a very special place, especially on an early morning session as the sun lifts over the marshes, maybe a bittern booming, a large crucifix rising out of the mist, your rod tip nodding to an obliging bream, there are times like that when life can't be much better. I can wholly recommend it!

 

http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/news-and-publications/publications-and-reports/conservation-publications-and-reports/water-conservation-reports/50.-Angle-on-the-Broads.pdf

Edited by Peter Waller
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