NHS is critical

[Ken L]

The NHS is in meltdown.

 

'Deliberate' use of the NHS—use by those who come here specifically to receive free treatment or who come for other reasons but take advantage of the system when they're here—is hard to quantify. It's thought to be very roughly between £110 million and £280 million a year.

 

Getting out of the EU should significantly reduce that problem then.

[Sportsman]

Probably not Ken.

For a start the NHS is having massive problems recruiting Drs and particularly nurses from EU countries in anything like the numbers they were getting a year or two ago. In addition, many are leaving the NHS to go home or to go to work in other, better paid and more welcoming countries.

Much of this is to do with insecurity following the Brexit vote and some to do with poor pay and conditions.

Also, why would EU nationals want to come to the UK for medical treatment? There is a very good chance that the treatment in their own country is better, given that in the last poll the UK came 14th in healthcare among EU countries.

It is much more likely that the health tourists come from countries unaffected by Brexit.

[Ken L]

The biggest problem is that unlike France and similar countries we have is a lack of entitlement checks in our healthcare system. That has to change and if Brexit triggers that change, so much the better.

It's undoubtedly true that some EU healthcare staff have gone home for a variety of reasons but then, they always have. A doctor friend of mine decided to return to Greece well before Brexit.

Of course, a reduction in the value of the pound means that the nomadic money grabbers of the medical world (I knew plenty of nurses that did stints in the US etc when I was younger) will look elsewhere but we really should be training our own young people for these roles instead of depleting the healthcare systems of poorer countries who can barely afford to provide their own people with healthcare, much less provide a surplus of trained medical staff for the rest of the world.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Ken L

[Sportsman]

Yes, you should be training your own people, but you have major recruitment problems.

Why would anyone go the expense of doing a degree course, when they will be on such low wages when they finish?

The fact is that the NHS has never been able to recruit and train enough of their own. When I first started my training in 1967 out of 14 new students on my pre training course, 5 of them were British and 3 of those failed to complete their training.

BTW, I know that foreign nurses have always left the NHS for one reason or another, but this is on a different scale.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/25/number-eu-nurses-coming-uk-falls-90-per-cent-since-brexit-vote/

Unfortunately, the only likely effect of Brexit on the NHS is to make it worse rather than better.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Sportsman

[Steve Walker]

I'm not sure stopping bursaries for student nurses at the same time as Brexit is really joined up government.

 

Still, as with any of these jobs, if we can't import cheap foreign labour and the Brits won't do them for the wages on offer, we'll just have to start paying a decent rate of pay and accept paying more tax or paying more for a punnet of fruit.

 

I wonder how much of the loss of foreign workers is down to the drop in the value of sterling.

[chesters1]

I am not sure brexit will effect cheap labour but it will effect cheap labour employers ,at the moment EU workers can just come here and get employment but if in the future a permit is required then their whereabouts is known ,they will have to state who is employing them therefore both them and the employer will be expected to pay tax and give the correct wages to the employee.

Good for employees they get the going rate but bad for employers because they will be forced to pay it.

 

The hospital scam at the moment is a great number of staff are agency staff the agencies get round paying their staff properly by making them temp staff avoiding paying the legal wage and conditions they just shuffle the staff around every couple of months to keep them that way.

 

We have never had foreign labour issues you applied for a work permit for x months ,came and then (hopefully) left that applied to everyone pre EU we just revert to the old system but to make it harder for the 'worker' to just disapear into the shadows once here the employer should pay £xxx for the permit and the directors personally held responsible for disapearences with unlimited fines .

A million quid a shot for losing staff should do the job nicely

 

Cheap foreign workers keeps wages down its not a myth but only the employer gains ,probably not lower prices but certainly higher profits ,for those here illegally they are paid little anyway and instead of paltry fines on employers huge fines should be made enough to bankrupt the employer and his business given to someone who will obey the rules.

Public floggings would be nice as well both for the employer and the employee who will be on the next pane home or some island near the south pole if they dont tell us where they came from a few months on south georgia should loosen their tongue and ofcourse all perfectly legal we just call them terrorists stick them in an orange onesie and call it camp zray

Edited April 3, 2017 by chesters1

[chesters1]

Yes, you should be training your own people, but you have major recruitment problems.

Why would anyone go the expense of doing a degree course, when they will be on such low wages when they finish?

The fact is that the NHS has never been able to recruit and train enough of their own. When I first started my training in 1967 out of 14 new students on my pre training course, 5 of them were British and 3 of those failed to complete their training.

BTW, I know that foreign nurses have always left the NHS for one reason or another, but this is on a different scale.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/25/number-eu-nurses-coming-uk-falls-90-per-cent-since-brexit-vote/

Unfortunately, the only likely effect of Brexit on the NHS is to make it worse rather than better.

Probably half the staff on my mrs ward when she had her knee opps were from malasia and the Philippines ,how they get here is a mystery so i guess imported by agencies ,she had three opps two in one year and the dusky workers (rather than whiter uk/eu workers) were always different ,one i got into conversation will was supporting a hubby and 3 kids back home heaven knows how she existed here and managed to send money home ? Perhaps they were crammed into a HMO like the Pakistanis used to and share beds on a shift rota.

Bugger knows why anyone comes here its a dirty place but i presume clean to some

 

Training is not only confined to nurses when i worked at the uni 90/95% were foreign students in the electronics labs but mainly ethnic in the media related ones, about 50/50 in the satellite building but its difficult judging many could be white europeans so only obvious when they speak

Being one of the few PAT testers i was hired out to many departments and it seemed the foreign students favoured the more difficult sciencies but why come here is a mystery? The other not so good bit is ofcourse they can work which i think shouldnt be allowed ,i got fed up being courteous to students serving me in tesco ,just because i put a fuse in your fricking plug or told you not to chain extention leads doesnt make us mates!

Edited April 3, 2017 by chesters1

[Phone]

All,

 

Noticed this today - if it is still around their news feed

 

http://www.cnn.com/2018/02/10/health/uk-nhs-universal-health-coverage-crisis-point-intl/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+CNN+-+Top+Stories%29

 

Phone

[big_cod]

All,

 

Noticed this today - if it is still around their news feed

 

http://www.cnn.com/2018/02/10/health/uk-nhs-universal-health-coverage-crisis-point-intl/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+CNN+-+Top+Stories%29

 

Phone

As trump says the NHS is broken no he wants it to be broken so it can be taken over by private healthcare the NHS will only be broken if you dont invest and you want it but if you run it down it will end up broken look no further some very hard choices need to be taken but wont be by this government.look at the track record it speaks for itself massive underfunding in real rearms thats called running it down . Edited February 12, 2018 by big_cod

[chesters1]

Theres lots of money in the NHS is just not spent wisely