Any mathematicians out there?. Re. Deeper, distance, swingback.

[Vagabond]

Could you attach a sliding Float above the Lead/Feeder?? the float would then act as a marker when it comes to the surface.

 

An adjustable Stop Knot so you can play around with the depth - The float will be directly vertically in line above the terminal tackle.

 

 

True, and if you use a Polaris float you don't have to bother with a stop knot. The Polaris acts as its own sliding stop-knot. Instead of fishing at a prescribed depth, you can rig a sliding paternoster so that the bait is a prescribed distance above the bottom - whatever the water depth is.. That is invaluable if you are fishing onto a steep slope in a gravel pit - where fish cruise up and down the slope and a couple of feet

either way of where your lead lands can result in a profound difference in depth. It means you can search such a slope without having to adjust a stop knot for every cast. What Martin says about the float being vertically above the lead is true if you don't tighten up straight away - once you do tighten, there will of course be an angle from lead to rod tip.

 

From #1 "A tale of two trips"

 

There followed some thought on the geometry of the rig. A fifty yard cast. The rod tip two foot above the surface, the lead eight feet below, the bait a foot higher. A sliding Polaris float to steepen the angle of line from surfaceto lead. By how much ? Hmm, that needed some guesswork, but I tried the lead on a five-foot running link, with a short hook length of about 9 inches. #6 hook loaded with as many dendroboenas as I could cram on, and out it went. Out went a second identical rig, Gave each about fifteen minutes and leapfrogged the two baits along the opposite side of the deep hole.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Vagabond

[Steve Walker]

I remember Dick Walker being asked to solve a similar problem. His correspondent had deduced something like the above and described it as follows "As the weight sinks, the line goes round the bend in the water " Very unscientific, but Dick knew instantly what the guy meant,

 

A bit like the instructions on the first Japanese fixed spool reel marketed here "Wind handle, bale arm go flip-flop, all go happy fish"

Priceless !

 

An excellent description!

[Kappa]

My advice?

 

Use the formula as described to calculate how much further you need to set you line marker. So for example if your spot it 100ft out use the formula to work out if you need to add say an extra 5ft.

 

Then you now know once you have cast out and tighten up the line if your line marker is in the right spot (e.g. the butt ring) then you are exactly on your spot.

 

The next step is where to clip up. This needs some adjustment throughout your session as other factors, especially wind makes a difference. For example you might find that if you want the line marker to end up at the butt ring once the line has sunk and all is tight that you need to clip up with the line marker at the tip ring for example to allow for the inefficiency in sinking and the bow in the line caused by a cross wind etc etc.

 

Does that make sense!

 

The key is if you are certain your line marker accurately marks the right spot then all you need to do it make sure its in the right position after you have tightened the line.

 

Rich

[Phone]

Welly,

 

You probably do this instinctively. The "length of the arc" (line above the water) kinda worked out to roughly a meter for every 10 meters. Someone with better math skills might come closer but that's real close.

 

Second, If you are really serious it will be practically mandatory you use fluorocarbon line. I cannot find a chart I once had for the mechanical energy kinetic and potential for mono.

 

Phone

 

I just bet you come as close with a "spit and guess" as you do with maths.

[Steve Walker]

Phone - close enough for jazz.

[barry luxton]

 

Vagabond, on 29 Nov 2017 - 12:29, said:

 

 

True, and if you use a Polaris float you don't have to bother with a stop knot. The Polaris acts as its own sliding stop-knot. Instead of fishing at a prescribed depth, you can rig a sliding paternoster so that the bait is a prescribed distance above the bottom - whatever the water depth is.. That is invaluable if you are fishing onto a steep slope in a gravel pit - where fish cruise up and down the slope and a couple of feet

either way of where your lead lands can result in a profound difference in depth. It means you can search such a slope without having to adjust a stop knot for every cast. What Martin says about the float being vertically above the lead is true if you don't tighten up straight away - once you do tighten, there will of course be an angle from lead to rod tip.

 

From #1 "A tale of two trips"

 

 

Any details of this float, can it be used where we need to set a depth, say 30' just above the reef when using live mackerel for bait. So we use a float that takes 3 ounces along with a sliding stop knot that we have to adjust until the correct depth is reached. Can it be adapted for us salties on a heavier scale?

Edited November 30, 2017 by barry luxton

[Vagabond]

Any details of this float, can it be used where we need to set a depth, say 30' just above the reef when using live mackerel for bait. So we use a float that takes 3 ounces along with a sliding stop knot that we have to adjust until the correct depth is reached. Can it be adapted for us salties on a heavier scale?

 

Hi Barry,

I have had a bit of experience using the method you describe, Used it off the Needles, the Shambles and a spot off Alderney Like you, I wondered if a scaled-up Polaris might work. However, I can see several snags (pun intended)

 

Firstly, wave size, or to be more precise, wave size compared with float size. I use my Polaris rig for perch, but I could dispense with the float and just use a running paternoster. The reason I add a Polaris is for earlier bite detection ie the sooner one knows a perch has taken, the sooner one can strike and the less chance of deep hooking. I work on the principle of "the nearer the bite indication is to the hook, the better." SO, the Polaris does the job in calm water, or in a light breeze. - but .....As the wind rises, the waves get bigger and even my largest Polaris is submerged by each wave crest. There comes a point where the disadvantage of a submerged Polaris in each wave (drag delaying bite indication) outweighs the usefulness of an early bite indication which you can no longer see. At that point the Polaris comes off and I revert to running paternoster with bite indication from the meniscus where line enters water at best, or rod tip movement at worst. The type of location that you fish for these "Giant Sand Smelts" with Joeys is probably similar to those mentioned in the first paragraph above - Strong currents, so any wave travel against current results in steep waves - possibly four foot or more, A Polaris would disappear in each wave.

 

Second I use the method in still water. Your situation is a tidal current and a moving boat . Other anglers with lines out. Enough said ?

 

Thirdly, snags on the bottom. That's why I fish the bait above the bottom. My snags are soft weedbeds covering the bottom and the larger pebbles of a gravel pit. Puny compared with the wrack-covered rocks you face. True, a rotten bottom might solve that, at the cost of frequent re-rigging Plus you are running a bait down tide - my bait is staying put unless I choose to move it.

 

My gut feeling is to stick with the method you describe - I have caught, .and seen my boatmates catch, plenty of GSS to double figures and above by that very method . Experimenting with the stopknot position is tedious, but necessary.

 

Hope that helps.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Vagabond

[barry luxton]

dohhh, I'm fic.

 

I fully understand the polaris now. Most of mine has been done off the needles and in the solent. On a hot wind free summers day, it's a fab way of catching them rare as hens teeth giant sand smelts , btw no restrictions on them............yet. the sliding stop knot is no real bother, once the depth has been sorted the fun commences. We don't normally have any more than 6 on the boat, a nice wide cat, so plenty of room to play around.

 

As you say on a smooth day out it may well be worth a try.

 

Thank you.

 

 

psst, east shambles buoy, 18lb turbot, just the job.

 

Ahh Alderney you say, have you done the 'washing machine' Where the boat does a 360 over a massive rock pinnacle, much fun that is. .

Edited December 1, 2017 by barry luxton