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Does anybody defend "Islamism"? That is not the same as "having Muslims living in the UK".

 

Anyway.

 

Ken, John - the only way forward I see is that we make sure that the laws of the country are applied without fear or favour, and we all learn to live together.

 

Do you have a better solution?

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You appear to have a particular and specific hatred for Islam. You fear that Muslims are going to enact the ludicrous bits of their scripture in ways you dont fear Christians will.   People used to

This was a disgusting act by disgusting people and to try to infer that the victims deserve it in some way is even more disgusting.

Not good. Can't really say I'm shocked but I didn't expect it to be NZ. Hopefully there won't be a response/copycat, but if there is, things could go bad real quick.

There are many interpretations of Islam, even if (unlike Christianity) there is only one sanctioned version of the text. Trouble is that we have taken no measures to restrict foreign money or the influence of foreign imams and scholars.

 

My experience of Islam in the UK is related to Birmingham and I know people who have moved mosques several times to avoid the nutters, so with a few obvious exceptions such as the Ahmadis community, I know that it's getting harder and harder to differentiate between "Islamism" and "having Muslims living in the UK".

 

As to the solutions..

Getting rid of all faith schools would be a good start.

Banning foreign money would be good.

The rest, including the management of who is coming into the country and who is saying what is best dealt with genuinely colour blind and fearless application of existing laws.

Species caught in 2020: Barbel. European Eel. Bleak. Perch. Pike.

Species caught in 2019: Pike. Bream. Tench. Chub. Common Carp. European Eel. Barbel. Bleak. Dace.

Species caught in 2018: Perch. Bream. Rainbow Trout. Brown Trout. Chub. Roach. Carp. European Eel.

Species caught in 2017: Siamese carp. Striped catfish. Rohu. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Black Minnow Shark. Perch. Chub. Brown Trout. Pike. Bream. Roach. Rudd. Bleak. Common Carp.

Species caught in 2016: Siamese carp. Jullien's golden carp. Striped catfish. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Alligator gar. Rohu. Black Minnow Shark. Roach, Bream, Perch, Ballan Wrasse. Rudd. Common Carp. Pike. Zander. Chub. Bleak.

Species caught in 2015: Brown Trout. Roach. Bream. Terrapin. Eel. Barbel. Pike. Chub.

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Islamism is a political ideology based around structuring a society and its governance on Islamic principles. Islam is a religion. Muslims are people. I find that easy to differentiate. We are a secular democracy in which live many people of different faiths and none, all of whom are equal under the law. There is no room for Islamism here.

 

I'd happily get rid of all the faith schools, and not especially because of the Islamic ones. I think that might be easier said than done, though, and I think the real religious fundies of whatever creed will just home educate, which might actually make matters worse. I'd also be happy to lose homeschooling, but that would be highly contentious.

 

Not sure that these, nor any of the other points, would address John's concerns about the nature of neighbourhoods changing with demographic change.

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Does anybody defend "Islamism"? That is not the same as "having Muslims living in the UK".

 

Anyway.

 

Ken, John - the only way forward I see is that we make sure that the laws of the country are applied without fear or favour, and we all learn to live together.

 

Do you have a better solution?

 

A nice thought Steve, but I believe it would only work if we all 'read from the same book', and I don't mean a religious one. If both sides were able to accept and respect the views of the other, it would be a start, but I can't see that happening when the cultures are so different. Different even amongst themselves, the difference beliefs within Christianity, and those within Islam, are, I feel, too great a barrier to ever coexist in harmony.

As to applying the laws equally, then such as Savile Town, and the many smaller, similar minded communities, would need a massive shake up, that would only end in violence. Religion would have to come further down the list from the laws of the land, and that would never happen.

Nice idea, and it might work in Corbynland, but not in the real world.

 

John.

Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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Not sure that these, nor any of the other points, would address John's concerns about the nature of neighbourhoods changing with demographic change.

 

They wouldn't Steve. You and Phone have said it, 'it's the way things work'. If people get change forced upon them, then they will fight it, the greater that change, the greater the resistance. Add to this the increase in population, especially where it's normal within a culture to have 5/6 kids, and it's more ingredients into the melting pot. If the pot gets too full, then it boils over. I can't think of an answer, and only see a future where violence is more common than it is now. Maybe gated communities, with security, for those that can afford it, the rest just either fight, or 'suck it up'.

 

John.

Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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Islamism is a political ideology based around structuring a society and its governance on Islamic principles. Islam is a religion. Muslims are people.

And where exactly do you draw the line between the two given that all of the structuring society and aggressively spreading the faith stuff was codified by Mohammed during his time in Medina and if fully incorporated into both the Quran and the Sunnah.

Species caught in 2020: Barbel. European Eel. Bleak. Perch. Pike.

Species caught in 2019: Pike. Bream. Tench. Chub. Common Carp. European Eel. Barbel. Bleak. Dace.

Species caught in 2018: Perch. Bream. Rainbow Trout. Brown Trout. Chub. Roach. Carp. European Eel.

Species caught in 2017: Siamese carp. Striped catfish. Rohu. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Black Minnow Shark. Perch. Chub. Brown Trout. Pike. Bream. Roach. Rudd. Bleak. Common Carp.

Species caught in 2016: Siamese carp. Jullien's golden carp. Striped catfish. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Alligator gar. Rohu. Black Minnow Shark. Roach, Bream, Perch, Ballan Wrasse. Rudd. Common Carp. Pike. Zander. Chub. Bleak.

Species caught in 2015: Brown Trout. Roach. Bream. Terrapin. Eel. Barbel. Pike. Chub.

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And where exactly do you draw the line between the two given that all of the structuring society and aggressively spreading the faith stuff was codified by Mohammed during his time in Medina and if fully incorporated into both the Quran and the Sunnah.

 

They also codified the obligation to obey the laws of the land in which one lives.

 

All the Muslims I know seem to manage to muddle along reconciling their faith with not overthrowing secular democracy.

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In the same way, I'm not sure what mum does at church, but I've seen her wearing mixed fabrics and I haven't caught her burning any witches recently.

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Are you prepared to bet the lives and welfare of your grandchildren on the hope that deep down, Muslims are good people too?

Because that's exactly what you are doing.

Species caught in 2020: Barbel. European Eel. Bleak. Perch. Pike.

Species caught in 2019: Pike. Bream. Tench. Chub. Common Carp. European Eel. Barbel. Bleak. Dace.

Species caught in 2018: Perch. Bream. Rainbow Trout. Brown Trout. Chub. Roach. Carp. European Eel.

Species caught in 2017: Siamese carp. Striped catfish. Rohu. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Black Minnow Shark. Perch. Chub. Brown Trout. Pike. Bream. Roach. Rudd. Bleak. Common Carp.

Species caught in 2016: Siamese carp. Jullien's golden carp. Striped catfish. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Alligator gar. Rohu. Black Minnow Shark. Roach, Bream, Perch, Ballan Wrasse. Rudd. Common Carp. Pike. Zander. Chub. Bleak.

Species caught in 2015: Brown Trout. Roach. Bream. Terrapin. Eel. Barbel. Pike. Chub.

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