Trump & Boris.....is it time for Frank Spencer?

[Mikench]

We have been served by foreigners since we were invaded by the Romans, the Saxons, the Vikings, the Celts, the Normans and many others. It is arguable that the Second World War would have been lost without the Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Aussies and New Zealander's who served in our army and airforce and who settled here after the war. The second coming in the last 20 years or so bears little in relation to numbers in comparison.

 

In my experience foreign workers work hard and are willing to do anything. Productivity in Germany, France and the US is much higher than ours and so is their standard of living. The economies of Germany and France are higher than ours and they lost the war!!!!!!

[chesters1]

Most do work hard but it doesnt change the fact it effects supply and demand ,if theres demand for workers and only a few workers wages go up to attract them ,the opposite effect happens when workers are abundant.

They also need somewhere to live and and the equivilent of a complete empty town the size of peterborough need just to house the influx every year! We dont have empty towns so they cause a demand and cause rents to rise due to it.

Theres also what contribution do they actually make? The employers love the cheap labour but unless they earn more than the lowest tax threshold all they pay is (hopefully) NI ,this ofcourse means they can claim in work benefits (just like our poorest paid) so they can actually take far more than they put in the pot

 

After brexit we can still get our slaves but under our rules ,they need to ask nicely first and tell us who they are working for ensuring they get at least the minimum wage AND the employer gets clobbered for tax employing them this will remove the difference between foreigners and brits and make it a more level playing field

Edited July 30, 2019 by chesters1

[corydoras]

Most do work hard but it doesnt change the fact it effects supply and demand ,if theres demand for workers and only a few workers wages go up to attract them ,the opposite effect happens when workers are abundant.

They also need somewhere to live and and the equivilent of a complete empty town the size of peterborough need just to house the influx every year! We dont have empty towns so they cause a demand and cause rents to rise due to it.

Theres also what contribution do they actually make? The employers love the cheap labour but unless they earn more than the lowest tax threshold all they pay is (hopefully) NI ,this ofcourse means they can claim in work benefits (just like our poorest paid) so they can actually take far more than they put in the pot

 

After brexit we can still get our slaves but under our rules ,they need to ask nicely first and tell us who they are working for ensuring they get at least the minimum wage AND the employer gets clobbered for tax employing them this will remove the difference between foreigners and brits and make it a more level playing field

What has Brexit got to to with making sure that employers pay the minimum wage? Total non-sequitor.

Edited July 30, 2019 by corydoras

[corydoras]

It will solve one of the things holding down wages.

 

As for "far right Torys", can you name some or define "far right"?

 

"I sincerely hope so the lot of them are doomed its just a matter of time".

Don't hold your breath...

I have never understood why those who are wrong about just about everything are called "right".

[big_cod]

We havnt been great britain since ww1 bankrupted us.

I asked you why you voted remain ,your answer started off cheap holls and fags ,then jobs jobs jobs ,unfortunately although pretending to like britain you have no qualms most of your jobs jobs jobs go to foreigners who just by coming here drive wages down and rents or house prices up and put an immense strain on the nhs and the tax system .

You seem to only want britain to fail !

You only seem concerned the low £ harms your cheap hols and fags but not how much better it is for british exports and visitors spending their money here (unlike you spending it abroad) perhaps you should start looking elswhere to live its obvious you hate britain i am sure not one person will shed a tear .

You whine fuel is rising but unlike most businesses yours is subsidised ,you really cannot make it up the greed of the man! Not only that you jet off with your money on a plane thats fuel is untaxed unlike buses or lorries ,perhaps you should join the tory party your head is already in the trough!

Chesters I want Britain to fail no its you that wants Britain to fail by leaving the EU so your brexit with all its lies Iiam fox a deal is the easiest thing in the world £350 million a week to the NHS 6 million Turks coming t to invade Britain Its all ****s Brexit lies lies lies i care about society about how brexit is affecting people lives you couldnt give flying hook fuel prices rocketing its Peoples businesses that are getting affected you dont care its just me me me in you little world like the Buffon who is threatening no deal brexit , farmers yes farmers threatening social unrest I suppose its because they want cheap fags cheap booze and cheap holidays we trade with the biggest trading block in world and the clot in number 10 thinks walking away is a great idea .

 

Brexit news flash we have just secured a significant say that again significant deal with Japan with lamb !!!

Fact !!! t no you havent the deal to Japan is just 2,67% of what we trade with lamb with the EU another Brexit lie fantasy island no wonder farmers threaten social unrest Boris says he will protect farmers with a no deal Brexit but what about everybody else who is affected by a no deal brexit he wont have enough cash in the till to bail them all out the pound on its arse because of Brexit we imports more than we export guess what every up congratulations , also a rise in inflation is just round the corner welcome to the Brexit world.

Edited July 31, 2019 by big_cod

[chesters1]

What has Brexit got to to with making sure that employers pay the minimum wage? Total non-sequitor.

Because we have no clue how many EU workers are coming here and no clue who they are working for ,if we have no clue how do we know they are being paid minimum wage (at least) .

You could have employers undercutting competition by paying less than minimum wage or just employing people on the fly and not paying minimum wage AND the employers part of NI to the government .if minimum wage is paid then the playing field is level and its down to the individual to get the job not just cheapness.

After brexit overseas employees will have to ask to come ,the work permit has not only who they are working for but a time restraint the government then have an idea of who it is where they work and more importantly they can check taxes and NI are being paid by both the employer and employee .At the moment we dont .

Not saying it doesnt happen with us ethnics but your romanian car washers are certainly not being paid minimum wage and i doubt their employers are paying up for the pleasure of employing them either !

Edited July 31, 2019 by chesters1

[chesters1]

Chesters I want Britain to fail no its you that wants Britain to fail by leaving the EU so your brexit with all its lies Iiam fox a deal is the easiest thing in the world £350 million a week to the NHS 6 million Turks coming t to invade Britain Its all ****s Brexit lies lies lies i care about society about how brexit is affecting people lives you couldnt give flying hook fuel prices rocketing its Peoples businesses that are getting affected you dont care its just me me me in you little world like the Buffon who is threatening no deal brexit , farmers yes farmers threatening social unrest I suppose its because they want cheap fags cheap booze and cheap holidays we trade with the biggest trading block in world and the clot in number 10 thinks walking away is a great idea .

 

Brexit news flash we have just secured a significant say that again significant deal with Japan with lamb !!!

Fact !!! t no you havent the deal to Japan is just 2,67% of what we trade with lamb with the EU another Brexit lie fantasy island no wonder farmers threaten social unrest Boris says he will protect farmers with a no deal Brexit but what about everybody else who is affected by a no deal brexit he wont have enough cash in the till to bail them all out the pound on its arse because of Brexit we imports more than we export guess what every up congratulations , also a rise in inflation is just round the corner welcome to the Brexit world.

Round and round its the bus again! The only person on earth believing is you!

The turkish statement is true even more than that every turk on the planet could come here if turkey joined! IF turkey joined just as every Albanian ,Bosnian ,croation,icelandian ,kosovan,macedonian and montenegran if they get in many many more than 6 million .

 

As for lamb if france wants it they can get it the only thing stopping it will be your mates the EU not britain ,if the EU really want to play dirty we can tax every bottle of muck they send over just as much .

The good side we eat more lamb from here and hopefully if not we import more lamb from new zealand and the welsh go broke why should our taxes fund meat for france!

 

As for sheep the farmers destroyed their own exports in the foot and mouth outbreaks ,feeding sheep to cows not a natural thing to do so blame farmers for low sales the french don't seem to mind but our meat is still looked on with suspicion in most places ,not bexit just the greed of farmers blame them!

Edited July 31, 2019 by chesters1

[Mikench]

Polarised view apparent as expected. Nobody knows the outcome and the gamble is far too huge to take affecting 64 million people. The referendum was appallingly conceived for such an important decision. There were no parameters on minimum numbers of voters, nor on percentages. In my view we should have had a 55% level at least. I know a little over 17 million people voted to leave and their wishes merit respect. However a little under 17 million people voted to stay and they will be disenfranchised and led to Armageddon Perhaps, by those who were deceived by blatant lies, hyperbole and sounbites. Cameron has a lot to answer for. The rest of the population didn't have a vote being under age and they will suffer most from a no deal Brexit. As the consequences of the referendum were likely to be do far reaching and likely to affect future generations, people aged over 75 shouldn't have been allowed to vote or the minimum age should have been reduced to 16 or lower. My misogynist , non politically correct and racist father voted to leave because of the lies told. He is 92 and has views typical of his generation. I fell out with over his puerile views. A doctor in his view, is over 60 and white British. If he insisted on having treatment from such he would have died years ago.

 

Any trade deal with say China, India, Turkey etc will no doubt involve a quid pro quo of immigration, jobs and access to our education system. The EU have a minimum wage and this country should enforce it. The world and his dog know about car washes and similar so why do the authorities not take action?

 

Even now the spin put on the Japanese trade deal is horrendous. The Japanese don't eat lamb and are unlikely to. This deal is a veritable drop in the ocean compared to the current EU trade. Are the Yanks going to buy Airbus planes, BAE systems and jets, our chickens, cars, in fact anything we produce ? Do we want GM crops, chlorinated chicken, Cadillacs and so on. We have the latter now and nobody wants them.

 

Talk about a mess!

Edited July 31, 2019 by Mikench

[chesters1]

Strange we excepted the result in the joining referendum with less votes and its strange we except the results in elections where the "winning" party could get just a third of the votes.

If you have a vote even one vote more than the other choices wins ,its excepted in everything else why not leaving the EU?

 

As to being a member of the EU at all ,is there research in how many british companies went broke when EU countries could export things to here and under cut them ? You cannot blame the british disease for everything although it has a factor just as it has today perhaps brexit will make british firms fill the gaps ? We may pay a bit more but at least our tax man may get some tax and not a foreign country of choice as foreign companies here can at the present

 

We already have GM crops ,you wont find maize or certain imports without it despite what the EU demand ,its there and it has been for years ,we grown them in tests not far from here ,we already import crap american cars and going by the scares (findus and bird flue etc) a bit of chlorine is the least of our worries and remember findus and some cases of bird flu originated IN the EU so throwing stones not such a good idea!

If chlorinated chicken passes all of the UK tests its perfectly legal but remember findus lasagne did for many years so blame the UK if you get ill and that applies to all meat bought here heaven knows what junk we are eating if its not checked at every stage of manufacture .

 

At least when we leave the government wont have the excuse "our hands are tied by the EU" or other excuses if something is amiss we can blame our government and act accordingly ,i only wish we could imprison and fine officials that fail to do their jobs it seems failure is rewarded nowadays!

 

As to the questions in the referendum it was fair leave or remain ,i can bet if we had a future one it would be unfair in splitting the leave vote by having 3 boxes remain ,leave or leave with a deal (essentially staying in in 2 choices) the government will then be let off the hook of leaving merely by adding one more box to split the leave vote so remain gets the most votes.

Edited July 31, 2019 by chesters1

[Mikench]

We did accept the vote when we joined and there was rancour then. I believe our membership has been beneficial. Leaving however was never going to be easy. The trade deal with Canada has taken 10 years and that was from a clean start and a non existant basis of trade. A betrothal perhaps.

 

What we have now is a divorce and an acrimonious one at that. In a marriage you can divorce and never see or speak to the ex ever again. With the Eu we have to continue to have a relationship with them for trade, for movement of people( over a million Btits live outside the Uk in Europe) for education and health reasons. If you are taken ill on your next trip to Ibiza, your health care needs will be met by the Spanish . If we have a no deal Brexit they will not.

 

My main point which cannot be refuted is that NOBODY , I repeat NOBODY, knows what will happen when we leave with or without a deal. There is propaganda on both sides but a rosy and happy future for this country is most unlikely in the short term or ever. Those turkeys in Sunderland, Ellesmere Port and other locations cannot complain when they lose their jobs because they voted to do so . The trouble is the rest of us will suffer with them.

 

Our politicians are largely incompetent whatever their hue or geographical position and I have never been so disillusioned by the political debate as I am now. To reiterate we have imho an utter Buffoon as PM, at least 3 heads of dept who have been declared as unfit to hold public office and they are backed up by clowns who have little idea on what is the best for this county and will be the least affected if it all goes wrong. I would add that I do not see the EU as perfect far from it. On balance we are better off within than without.