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20 minutes ago, gozzer said:

I can see your point about safety, and almost guaranteed to catch, but it's the obsession with carp, and other exotics that are not indigenous that really angers me. I see them as just an ego boost for those who need to catch, and of course a cash cow for those who provide them. The level of stock in some of these waters is obscene, often over 10 times a naturally sustainable level. I have used an analogy on here before, and I believe it still holds true. If someone wanted to make football 'more interesting', would it be ok to double or even treble the size of the goal? Would the same apply to increasing the number of stumps in cricket to 5 or 7, or trebling the size of a dart board, or the size of the holes on a golf course? The best strikers of a ball, would still score more goals, the best bowlers take the most wickets, the best darts players the most 180s, and golfers more successful putts, but it would give the less able more chance of achieving something. Angling is the only 'sport', as some like to call it, where it is made easier, and lauded as a great achievement if you win. Every one I asked agreed that if those changes were made, then it wouldn't be football, or cricket etc, but accepted it in angling. There have always been waters where there was a glut of stunted fish, but nature would eventually balance it with an increase in preds. Now it's all artificial, even to fishing indoors!  I feel it's only time before those who would try to ban angling, see this as the perfect opportunity, to show that angling cares more about the anglers, than the fish, or the flora and fauna that surrounds it. I made the point about these waters causing the spread of non indigenous species into new waters, in the earlier thread. I see this as a real problem that can only get worse, you can rid a small Stillwater of a nuisance species much easier than you can a river, especially when it's the angers themselves that cause the problem, then refuse to aid any cull that might help. It's ok to 'cull/kill' anything with fur or feathers that might feed on fish, and help  maintain a healthy balance though.  The Environment agency are also a major player, they have failed in their main purpose, to protect the water and wildlife of this country. 

My grandson who's 5 in a couple of months is nattering for me to take him fishing, I've bought a 6metre whip to start him off, but I'm struggling to think of where to take him, it will probably be a stretch of canal that hasn't yet fully been polluted by carp.

Sorry for the rambling, it's always been a problem of mine.

John.

No worries, again I  agree with the main points. Although I don't do football etc, don't we already make it easier for the kids when they're playing these games to make it more fun and keep an interest. Aren't kids games generally easier? So why not fishing.

I also teach my grandkids to shoot, but wouldn't dream of giving them a double barrel 12 gauge and letting them loose. I start them on a .410 single barrel, small cartridges, low loads and make it fun.

I believe if you make anything fun, kids have an interest and thirst for knowledge. My grandkids have an allotment and grow food as an example. They can also name trees and plants, can tell you what uses some plants have. Comfry as another example. 

I don't like carp puddles, but I do enjoy catching carp that I have to stalk or work for.

If it means my grandkids get the joy of fishing, fresh air and outside enjoyment I'll patronise these puddles for the joy it brings them and the joy of me watching them.

Otherwise John I agree, most are a disgrace, many rat infested rubbish heaps and waters full of tin cans.

Two years ago I fished a stillwater in Lincolnshire that looked wonderful, well established, plenty of natural vegetation, potential i thought. Owner came for his ticket money as I was tackling up, then spent 10 mins throwing scoops full of trout pellets into one corner. The water fair boiled with stunted 4lb Carp. I left! He just couldn't understand why.

If all else fails, follow the intructions.
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Thanks for trying to explain my position Phone, but you've got somethings the wrong way round. It's not so much the 'culture' of the carp anglers in general, I have a few acquaintances, that are carp

I buy red crumb by the sack £27 for 20kg off Ebay I also buy hemp at the same time, £26 for 15kg. Cook my own hemp with additives, freeze it down or use fresh. With the crumb, I add my own additi

This is the one I'm using now Ant - Sonubaits Super Crush Spicy Meaty Method Mix. Probably close to what your looking for?? (Never heard of tinned groundbait myself though) Mix it how you like for Met

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Cameraman,

In the course coarse of time you will notice what Gozzer actually dislikes is the obnoxious "culture" today's carp anglers bring to the table.  Rather than say that over and over he simply blames the "messenger".

In the United States carp are "hated" for a different reason. Neither are the fishes fault.  Here is an example of our "carp problem"

image.jpeg.1d51f9f6ffbf981a7a950ac0f8199a74.jpeg

Phone

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2 hours ago, Phone said:

Cameraman,

In the course coarse of time you will notice what Gozzer actually dislikes is the obnoxious "culture" today's carp anglers bring to the table.  Rather than say that over and over he simply blames the "messenger".

In the United States carp are "hated" for a different reason. Neither are the fishes fault.  Here is an example of our "carp problem"

image.jpeg.1d51f9f6ffbf981a7a950ac0f8199a74.jpeg

Phone

Absolute prime example of the waters John means. Just like the lake I was fishing in Lincolnshire. Ovetstocked, rely on anglers for food and stunted. No predators in the water to balance the order.

I think we both agree in principle but agree to differ that some easy waters are needed for kids.

It was never an argument I'm sure John will agree, just a chat, like you'd have over a beer.

👍

Edited by Cameraman
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If all else fails, follow the intructions.
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4 hours ago, Phone said:

Cameraman,

In the course coarse of time you will notice what Gozzer actually dislikes is the obnoxious "culture" today's carp anglers bring to the table.  Rather than say that over and over he simply blames the "messenger".

In the United States carp are "hated" for a different reason. Neither are the fishes fault.  Here is an example of our "carp problem"

image.jpeg.1d51f9f6ffbf981a7a950ac0f8199a74.jpeg

Phone

Thats not a problem its protein! Harvest it instead of sand eels or plankton and sell it dried.

We could buy it and feed it to our cattle instead of sheep (or other cattle!)

Edited by chesters1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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5 hours ago, Phone said:

Cameraman,

In the course coarse of time you will notice what Gozzer actually dislikes is the obnoxious "culture" today's carp anglers bring to the table.  Rather than say that over and over he simply blames the "messenger".

In the United States carp are "hated" for a different reason. Neither are the fishes fault.  Here is an example of our "carp problem"

image.jpeg.1d51f9f6ffbf981a7a950ac0f8199a74.jpeg

Phone

Thanks for trying to explain my position Phone, but you've got somethings the wrong way round. It's not so much the 'culture' of the carp anglers in general, I have a few acquaintances, that are carp mad, and we still talk amicably it's a mixture of things.

It's not the fault of a virus that it inflicts itself on other people, but we still want to try and control, or eradicate it. We can't eradicate the people who catch and spread the virus, only try and get them to accept more hygienic, and common sense methods to help reduce the impact of that virus. Carp are the virus, anglers are part of the group that wilfully spread it. I've tried over the years to explain my feelings to this group, as well as, clubs, 'fishery' owners, river authorities, and the environment agencies, but while many say they see my point, I'm afraid they are only too willing to accept that angling is now becoming an artificial pastime, worshiping money and the ego, but without, for want of a better word, 'soul'.

The creation of overstocked artificial, predominately single species waters, for one. I would feel the same whatever the species, even my favourite roach or tench, it just happens to be carp that are singled out, because they are easy to breed, grow large, and are virtually indestructible in comparison with many other species. I cannot understand, or accept, the appeal of waters that have no natural balance. Throughout my angling life, I have seen waters change, and the predominant species change within them. Sometimes it's been because of changes in the effects of the weather. Long dry summers like the mid 70s, saw an explosion of fry, and very good, (for the time), match weights in the autumn/winter, and the following year. This was then followed by an increase in most predatory species, pike, perch, chub, and even catching roach and bream on small live/dead baits. The waters then over time attained a new, 'natural balance', not always exactly the same as before. Eventually the whole thing levelled out, until the next change in conditions. Sometimes it was a manmade incident that altered that balance, such as pollution. Then, my view was that the water should be left until it could support aquatic life, and then, only then, should there be a restocking programme, just enough to 'kick start' the natural cycle. This last point was dismissed by those who wanted large stocking programmes, to produce instant results, which brings me to my next point. I don't usually refer to these waters as 'commercials', because we have always had waters where we had buy a permit to allow access to fish. The main difference is that where it was once done to create 'pin money', to bolster the family income, sometimes with the added inclusion of a bacon sandwich and a cuppa on arrival. Now it's an out and out business concern, a part of the angling 'industry'. Where once anglers paid the money to allow access to the water, and then their success depended on their skill, luck, or lack off. Now anglers pay not only for the right to fish, but as part of the fee, expect a guaranteed catch, regardless of their ability, and actively complain on line if they don't receive the 'catching experience' they've paid for, just like buying any commodity.  Almost instant results, regardless of any ability on behalf of the angler. I've never believed that fish exist purely for the catching pleasure of the angler, they are part of a great cycle of life that encompasses all our native wildlife, and I felt privileged to be able to share in, and be a part of it, if only for a while, before returning to my inner city life.

I could go on and on, and as some on here will attest I often have, but will finish....for now, with one more point. 

While Cameraman and I agree on most things, I, (so far), have refused to patronise any overstocked commercial water since my early disappointing forays in the 90s. While I can understand his views on the safety, and convenience aspects of these waters, especially for the young, and, I guess, the older generations, I still can't understand why they have to be so overstocked. I see it as a dumbing down of the whole thing, and with many of the youngsters I've help over the years, I have found that the ones who have it too easy when they start, (double figure carp, and big bags of fish spring to mind), are the ones less likely to stay with angling. Those who start 'small' and feel the need to 'grow' and expand their angling experiences over time, are the ones that I've seen continue over the years. In fact many of the youngsters I helped 20, 30 years ago, are still at it. It's a standing joke within my family that I have often been stopped by someone, who I don't recognise, but obviously recognises me, (I guess I must have looked pretty old 30 years ago). They then start to tell whoever is with me, the story of how I helped them when they were kids. It's a nice, if somewhat embarrassing situation to be in, but it makes me feel pretty good inside.

John.

 

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Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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  • 1 month later...

I'm mostly using Vitalin at the moment with hemp and pellets and occasionally flavourings added.

I always prepare it the night before by pouring boiling water over it in a small cool-box, so everything is nice and soft.

Species caught in 2020: Barbel. European Eel. Bleak. Perch. Pike.

Species caught in 2019: Pike. Bream. Tench. Chub. Common Carp. European Eel. Barbel. Bleak. Dace.

Species caught in 2018: Perch. Bream. Rainbow Trout. Brown Trout. Chub. Roach. Carp. European Eel.

Species caught in 2017: Siamese carp. Striped catfish. Rohu. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Black Minnow Shark. Perch. Chub. Brown Trout. Pike. Bream. Roach. Rudd. Bleak. Common Carp.

Species caught in 2016: Siamese carp. Jullien's golden carp. Striped catfish. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Alligator gar. Rohu. Black Minnow Shark. Roach, Bream, Perch, Ballan Wrasse. Rudd. Common Carp. Pike. Zander. Chub. Bleak.

Species caught in 2015: Brown Trout. Roach. Bream. Terrapin. Eel. Barbel. Pike. Chub.

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Gozzer,

You not only could go on and on - you do go on and on (frankly I love it). I too can go on and on, especially about the world's finest gamefish.

 

Top carp angler of the day, Jack Hilton, with his first carp from Redmire Pool. At 35lb it was the largest carp recorded in 1967. My first British encounter.

The roots of fishing for carp in the UK began from the need to eat a plentiful food source, to hundreds of years later becoming the greatest phenomena to hit UK angling during the latter half of the last century and into the present one.

The redoubtable Richard Walker caught his first 20lb carp at Dagenham on the last of July 1952 along with a 17½lb mirror the same afternoon – this catch caused much excitement and admiration. Anglers by nature love stories of big fish and places that hold them. Many carp anglers will have heard of carp called “Leney’s”.  Carp fishing history is blessed with evidence that Bernithan Court Water (renamed Redmire Pool in late 1952) was stocked with 50 yearling carp on 10th March 1934.  In the early hours of 13th September 1952 Dick Walker landed, with essential help from his friend Pete Thomas, a carp so large that the angling world at first thought it must be a hoax. Walker’s decision to arrange to have the fish transported to the London Zoo at Regents Park. It became an overnight sensation and over the years masses of anglers and other folk came to look in wonder at this truly monstrous freshwater fish. When Dick Walker landed a 31¼lb common (true weight 34lb - but that's another story) on the opening weekend of the 1954 season, people then starting to talk as though he was a new messiah in fishing - and in many ways he was. In 1972 two young carp anglers gained access to the Redmir syndicate  their names Rod Hutchinson and Chris Yates and things were about to change again. With energy and commitment plus a touch of quirkiness the pair ran roughshod over all that had happened before. It was the small particle approach that won the day for these Redmire anglers. Rod, ever the bait experimenter, tried all manner of baits including hemp (very successful), chick peas, mini-maples, haricot beans, black eyed beans, jelly babies (I kid you not) shrimps and god knows what else. While Chris threw in pigeon racing beans, mungo beans, aduki beans and the most successful of them all, sweetcorn. Chris had taken a tin of Jolly Green Giant sweetcorn with him to eat. It was opened one July morning in 1972 to form part of the filling for an omelet. Using half the contents for the dish, it stuck Chris that it might be useful as a bait.

ENTER THE STORY PHONEBUSH FROM AMERICA (Phone)

A fellow bait tester from BERKLEY introduced me to a fine young Englishman, Dr .Bruno Broughton which pretty much coincided with Newt Vail bringing me along to anglersnet.

Most know the rest of the story so here is the short version. I am a certified expert all things carp. Until late 1992 I was equally knowledgeable on rods, reels, lines and hooks from an American perspective. I fished with you chaps 3 or 4 times, once Redmire courtesy British Tobacco Company and dam near got kicked out.

 Phone

EDIT: I have a sentence or two in this 2010 document. My advice was from about 1985 (haha) Those of you that haven't read it will enjoy even if it has changed in the last 10 years.

http://www.therrc.co.uk/MOT/References/EA_Fisheries_habitat_improvement.pdf

 

real edit: most of this is NOT original and I've forgotten the author's name. re-typed from an old paper as it somehow was not on my computer

Edited by Phone
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  • 2 weeks later...

Dr .Bruno Broughton

There's another name from the past. Top fella who helped me lots when I was thinking about getting the fishing rights to a stretch of canal. Hope he's still around and healthy. 

 

 

Eat right, stay fit, die anyway.

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Ant,

He, according to Elton, was very helpful in the early days of AN. If memory serves me correctly he is in some fashion of the private sector. Someone should remember the name, I'm sure it dealt with the sciences.. I never knew him to wet a line.

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Some of the Leney Carp were stocked into our estate lake many years ago, however over the years we had several pollutions (from a company upstream) and subsequent restockings which probably wiped their strain out eventually.

The last polution happened several years ago and Dr Bruno Broughton helped us get the lake back to normal and restock it together with a female fishery scientist (who’s name escapes me) who we paid to monitor the water quality each year afterwards.

Keith

 

Edited by BoldBear

Happiness is Fish shaped (it used to be woman shaped but the wife is getting on a bit now)

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