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*Ant*

Groundbait?

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20 minutes ago, gozzer said:

I can see your point about safety, and almost guaranteed to catch, but it's the obsession with carp, and other exotics that are not indigenous that really angers me. I see them as just an ego boost for those who need to catch, and of course a cash cow for those who provide them. The level of stock in some of these waters is obscene, often over 10 times a naturally sustainable level. I have used an analogy on here before, and I believe it still holds true. If someone wanted to make football 'more interesting', would it be ok to double or even treble the size of the goal? Would the same apply to increasing the number of stumps in cricket to 5 or 7, or trebling the size of a dart board, or the size of the holes on a golf course? The best strikers of a ball, would still score more goals, the best bowlers take the most wickets, the best darts players the most 180s, and golfers more successful putts, but it would give the less able more chance of achieving something. Angling is the only 'sport', as some like to call it, where it is made easier, and lauded as a great achievement if you win. Every one I asked agreed that if those changes were made, then it wouldn't be football, or cricket etc, but accepted it in angling. There have always been waters where there was a glut of stunted fish, but nature would eventually balance it with an increase in preds. Now it's all artificial, even to fishing indoors!  I feel it's only time before those who would try to ban angling, see this as the perfect opportunity, to show that angling cares more about the anglers, than the fish, or the flora and fauna that surrounds it. I made the point about these waters causing the spread of non indigenous species into new waters, in the earlier thread. I see this as a real problem that can only get worse, you can rid a small Stillwater of a nuisance species much easier than you can a river, especially when it's the angers themselves that cause the problem, then refuse to aid any cull that might help. It's ok to 'cull/kill' anything with fur or feathers that might feed on fish, and help  maintain a healthy balance though.  The Environment agency are also a major player, they have failed in their main purpose, to protect the water and wildlife of this country. 

My grandson who's 5 in a couple of months is nattering for me to take him fishing, I've bought a 6metre whip to start him off, but I'm struggling to think of where to take him, it will probably be a stretch of canal that hasn't yet fully been polluted by carp.

Sorry for the rambling, it's always been a problem of mine.

John.

No worries, again I  agree with the main points. Although I don't do football etc, don't we already make it easier for the kids when they're playing these games to make it more fun and keep an interest. Aren't kids games generally easier? So why not fishing.

I also teach my grandkids to shoot, but wouldn't dream of giving them a double barrel 12 gauge and letting them loose. I start them on a .410 single barrel, small cartridges, low loads and make it fun.

I believe if you make anything fun, kids have an interest and thirst for knowledge. My grandkids have an allotment and grow food as an example. They can also name trees and plants, can tell you what uses some plants have. Comfry as another example. 

I don't like carp puddles, but I do enjoy catching carp that I have to stalk or work for.

If it means my grandkids get the joy of fishing, fresh air and outside enjoyment I'll patronise these puddles for the joy it brings them and the joy of me watching them.

Otherwise John I agree, most are a disgrace, many rat infested rubbish heaps and waters full of tin cans.

Two years ago I fished a stillwater in Lincolnshire that looked wonderful, well established, plenty of natural vegetation, potential i thought. Owner came for his ticket money as I was tackling up, then spent 10 mins throwing scoops full of trout pellets into one corner. The water fair boiled with stunted 4lb Carp. I left! He just couldn't understand why.


If all else fails, follow the intructions.

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Cameraman,

In the course coarse of time you will notice what Gozzer actually dislikes is the obnoxious "culture" today's carp anglers bring to the table.  Rather than say that over and over he simply blames the "messenger".

In the United States carp are "hated" for a different reason. Neither are the fishes fault.  Here is an example of our "carp problem"

image.jpeg.1d51f9f6ffbf981a7a950ac0f8199a74.jpeg

Phone

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2 hours ago, Phone said:

Cameraman,

In the course coarse of time you will notice what Gozzer actually dislikes is the obnoxious "culture" today's carp anglers bring to the table.  Rather than say that over and over he simply blames the "messenger".

In the United States carp are "hated" for a different reason. Neither are the fishes fault.  Here is an example of our "carp problem"

image.jpeg.1d51f9f6ffbf981a7a950ac0f8199a74.jpeg

Phone

Absolute prime example of the waters John means. Just like the lake I was fishing in Lincolnshire. Ovetstocked, rely on anglers for food and stunted. No predators in the water to balance the order.

I think we both agree in principle but agree to differ that some easy waters are needed for kids.

It was never an argument I'm sure John will agree, just a chat, like you'd have over a beer.

👍

Edited by Cameraman
  • Like 1

If all else fails, follow the intructions.

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4 hours ago, Phone said:

Cameraman,

In the course coarse of time you will notice what Gozzer actually dislikes is the obnoxious "culture" today's carp anglers bring to the table.  Rather than say that over and over he simply blames the "messenger".

In the United States carp are "hated" for a different reason. Neither are the fishes fault.  Here is an example of our "carp problem"

image.jpeg.1d51f9f6ffbf981a7a950ac0f8199a74.jpeg

Phone

Thats not a problem its protein! Harvest it instead of sand eels or plankton and sell it dried.

We could buy it and feed it to our cattle instead of sheep (or other cattle!)

Edited by chesters1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

 

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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5 hours ago, Phone said:

Cameraman,

In the course coarse of time you will notice what Gozzer actually dislikes is the obnoxious "culture" today's carp anglers bring to the table.  Rather than say that over and over he simply blames the "messenger".

In the United States carp are "hated" for a different reason. Neither are the fishes fault.  Here is an example of our "carp problem"

image.jpeg.1d51f9f6ffbf981a7a950ac0f8199a74.jpeg

Phone

Thanks for trying to explain my position Phone, but you've got somethings the wrong way round. It's not so much the 'culture' of the carp anglers in general, I have a few acquaintances, that are carp mad, and we still talk amicably it's a mixture of things.

It's not the fault of a virus that it inflicts itself on other people, but we still want to try and control, or eradicate it. We can't eradicate the people who catch and spread the virus, only try and get them to accept more hygienic, and common sense methods to help reduce the impact of that virus. Carp are the virus, anglers are part of the group that wilfully spread it. I've tried over the years to explain my feelings to this group, as well as, clubs, 'fishery' owners, river authorities, and the environment agencies, but while many say they see my point, I'm afraid they are only too willing to accept that angling is now becoming an artificial pastime, worshiping money and the ego, but without, for want of a better word, 'soul'.

The creation of overstocked artificial, predominately single species waters, for one. I would feel the same whatever the species, even my favourite roach or tench, it just happens to be carp that are singled out, because they are easy to breed, grow large, and are virtually indestructible in comparison with many other species. I cannot understand, or accept, the appeal of waters that have no natural balance. Throughout my angling life, I have seen waters change, and the predominant species change within them. Sometimes it's been because of changes in the effects of the weather. Long dry summers like the mid 70s, saw an explosion of fry, and very good, (for the time), match weights in the autumn/winter, and the following year. This was then followed by an increase in most predatory species, pike, perch, chub, and even catching roach and bream on small live/dead baits. The waters then over time attained a new, 'natural balance', not always exactly the same as before. Eventually the whole thing levelled out, until the next change in conditions. Sometimes it was a manmade incident that altered that balance, such as pollution. Then, my view was that the water should be left until it could support aquatic life, and then, only then, should there be a restocking programme, just enough to 'kick start' the natural cycle. This last point was dismissed by those who wanted large stocking programmes, to produce instant results, which brings me to my next point. I don't usually refer to these waters as 'commercials', because we have always had waters where we had buy a permit to allow access to fish. The main difference is that where it was once done to create 'pin money', to bolster the family income, sometimes with the added inclusion of a bacon sandwich and a cuppa on arrival. Now it's an out and out business concern, a part of the angling 'industry'. Where once anglers paid the money to allow access to the water, and then their success depended on their skill, luck, or lack off. Now anglers pay not only for the right to fish, but as part of the fee, expect a guaranteed catch, regardless of their ability, and actively complain on line if they don't receive the 'catching experience' they've paid for, just like buying any commodity.  Almost instant results, regardless of any ability on behalf of the angler. I've never believed that fish exist purely for the catching pleasure of the angler, they are part of a great cycle of life that encompasses all our native wildlife, and I felt privileged to be able to share in, and be a part of it, if only for a while, before returning to my inner city life.

I could go on and on, and as some on here will attest I often have, but will finish....for now, with one more point. 

While Cameraman and I agree on most things, I, (so far), have refused to patronise any overstocked commercial water since my early disappointing forays in the 90s. While I can understand his views on the safety, and convenience aspects of these waters, especially for the young, and, I guess, the older generations, I still can't understand why they have to be so overstocked. I see it as a dumbing down of the whole thing, and with many of the youngsters I've help over the years, I have found that the ones who have it too easy when they start, (double figure carp, and big bags of fish spring to mind), are the ones less likely to stay with angling. Those who start 'small' and feel the need to 'grow' and expand their angling experiences over time, are the ones that I've seen continue over the years. In fact many of the youngsters I helped 20, 30 years ago, are still at it. It's a standing joke within my family that I have often been stopped by someone, who I don't recognise, but obviously recognises me, (I guess I must have looked pretty old 30 years ago). They then start to tell whoever is with me, the story of how I helped them when they were kids. It's a nice, if somewhat embarrassing situation to be in, but it makes me feel pretty good inside.

John.

 

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Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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