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Hitting bites up in the water


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I was trying a new bait for me today, small 5mm cubes of meat fished on the float for rudd and roach. I've ledgered big junks of meat for chub and barbel, but today's method trying for smaller fish was new. I quickly discovered that the roach were up in the water, and I adjusted the depth to about 3 feet. For a while it was bite-a-chuck, but I found it very hard to hit bites - much more so than in the past with maggot or hemp and tares. The float would bob, coming up again almost as soon as it went under. I felt that possibly one problem was that they were feeling the resistance of the float. My eyesight isn't perfect, and perhaps it wasn't shotted down as much as it might have been. So I adjusted that. I think that brought a slight improvement, but my hit rate was still very low. The float was a 2AA waggler - not an insert waggler as I'd find it too hard to see. Does anyone have any tips how to hit this type of bite, or how, by rig adjustment etc, to induce slower bites?

In  two hours I had just 6 roach (no rudd), but was very pleased that  two of them were 8oz and 15 oz.  So I feel it's an approach I'll try again.

john clarke

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Hi Tench, you might want to try a bit more hook exposure & a Red coloured hook (Drennan Red) which would be more in line with the Meat colour.

Failing that- a slow sinking Caster (Floating Caster with a No 8 shot very near the hook)

Sweetcorn Shells fished the same way can also work.

Also try small punched meat rather than cubed - may be a case of seen it all before & something just presented a bit different might do the trick??

A small cylinder of meat is sucked in much easier than a cube (But that's one for the Jokes section Lol)

Also the Waggler approach can make a bit of a splash - try a small stick float or porcupine (attached top & bottom) Doesn't have to be fully cocked. It's like freelining with a bit of casting weight.

Edited by Martin56

Fishin' - "Best Fun Ya' can 'ave wi' Ya' Clothes On"!!

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If you throw in maggots when bleak or roach are boiling, you will often see tiny fish that can't swallow them grab a maggot and swim around with it in its mouth without swallowing it.

If you have a hook in the bait, you will get a bite but have almost no chance of hooking the fish - you just pull the maggot out of its mouth.

You have two choices:

Downsize the bait and hook to catch the fish that are grabbing and swimming off with the bait.

or

Upsize everything (I have basically used a small self cocking perch/pike float), ignore all the twitches and bobs and wait for it to go under.

I've has success with both, and one advantage of the latter method is that if you feed small balls of groundbait with freebies, the fish come running to the splash - and he float going in makes a similar splash.

Species caught in 2020: Barbel. European Eel. Bleak. Perch. Pike.

Species caught in 2019: Pike. Bream. Tench. Chub. Common Carp. European Eel. Barbel. Bleak. Dace.

Species caught in 2018: Perch. Bream. Rainbow Trout. Brown Trout. Chub. Roach. Carp. European Eel.

Species caught in 2017: Siamese carp. Striped catfish. Rohu. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Black Minnow Shark. Perch. Chub. Brown Trout. Pike. Bream. Roach. Rudd. Bleak. Common Carp.

Species caught in 2016: Siamese carp. Jullien's golden carp. Striped catfish. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Alligator gar. Rohu. Black Minnow Shark. Roach, Bream, Perch, Ballan Wrasse. Rudd. Common Carp. Pike. Zander. Chub. Bleak.

Species caught in 2015: Brown Trout. Roach. Bream. Terrapin. Eel. Barbel. Pike. Chub.

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Thanks Martin and Ken

Martin, I'll certainly try your suggestions of single caster and punched meat. They really amount to Ken's option of down-sizing. 

But Ken, I'm intrigued by your suggestion of up-sizing. Really counter-intuitive! I take the point that the reason the bites are un-hittable is probably because of the size of the bait. I'll be fascinated to see what the roach make of my float that will scarcely be shotted at all!

john clarke

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11 hours ago, The Flying Tench said:

Thanks Martin and Ken

Martin, I'll certainly try your suggestions of single caster and punched meat. They really amount to Ken's option of down-sizing. 

But Ken, I'm intrigued by your suggestion of up-sizing. Really counter-intuitive! I take the point that the reason the bites are un-hittable is probably because of the size of the bait. I'll be fascinated to see what the roach make of my float that will scarcely be shotted at all!

I've done it a few times.

I recall being drawn a peg in a club match on the Warks Avon, and I couldn't buy a bite on the bottom, but it became apparent that there was a huge shoal of bleak in front of me, along with a bunch of chub that were high in the water.

Standard snatching got me a few fish, but it was mainly unhittable bites, smashed maggots and the occasional bust off. A big chubber, a 14 hook and two or three maggots on the hook resolved the issue, with lots of bobbing of the float until the bleak spat out the bait, leaving it to be picked off by the chub. These days, I'd probably use a fake maggot.

Species caught in 2020: Barbel. European Eel. Bleak. Perch. Pike.

Species caught in 2019: Pike. Bream. Tench. Chub. Common Carp. European Eel. Barbel. Bleak. Dace.

Species caught in 2018: Perch. Bream. Rainbow Trout. Brown Trout. Chub. Roach. Carp. European Eel.

Species caught in 2017: Siamese carp. Striped catfish. Rohu. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Black Minnow Shark. Perch. Chub. Brown Trout. Pike. Bream. Roach. Rudd. Bleak. Common Carp.

Species caught in 2016: Siamese carp. Jullien's golden carp. Striped catfish. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Alligator gar. Rohu. Black Minnow Shark. Roach, Bream, Perch, Ballan Wrasse. Rudd. Common Carp. Pike. Zander. Chub. Bleak.

Species caught in 2015: Brown Trout. Roach. Bream. Terrapin. Eel. Barbel. Pike. Chub.

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Everyone has their own tried and tested methods whiich work for them so i'm not saying my methods are any better .  This a couple of ways I would fish up in the water for roach etc. 

I've always found that casting out just before or straight after cattying out a pouch of maggots so my bait is amongst them as they sink had given the best results.  The fish will all dart into the maggots (or any bait) and not be as wary.  If your bait is on it's own the fish have time to check it out, mouthing it etc rather than trying to engulf it as qickly as they are more likely to do when in a frenzied group.

On the subject of meat as the hookbait, I wouldn't say it's the best choice if fishing up in the water.

 

If fishing a rod length or two out I would use as light a float as possible, maybe a piece of quill fixed top and bottom via a couple of rubbers and allow it to lay flat on the surface As soon as it starts to move/slide across the surface just strike. I've never used one but I reckon a fly fishers sight blob would be good.

Failing that and fishing further out a light weight puddle chucker, such as the drennan ones already weighted at the base would be fine, but use no weight on the line.

Also, when casting out feather your line to allow it to straighten out, or wind back a touch to straighten it.  If the line is all bunched up it's easier for the fish to mess with your bait and give no detection.

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I had a brief crack today at Ken's approach of having a very under-shotted float so only the better fish (with big enough mouths) would pull it under. It wasn't the right day for it, there were not enough fish biting, though I was pleased to catch a 1lb rudd on double maggot. The main thing I learned was the importance of groundbait up in the water. In the fist hour I didn't bother with groundbait as I thought the free offerings of maggot and bread would be enough. They weren't. But as soon as I put in a cloud of groundbait the swim woke up and the rudd moved in.

john clarke

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It's probably still a bit cool for it to really kick off up in the water just yet John, but yes, groundbait and a splash when the float lands are what you want.

This year, I'll be trying the Thai tactics in the UK, with a coil/method feeder suspended under a much bigger float and the hook just an inch or two from the feeder.

 

 

 

Species caught in 2020: Barbel. European Eel. Bleak. Perch. Pike.

Species caught in 2019: Pike. Bream. Tench. Chub. Common Carp. European Eel. Barbel. Bleak. Dace.

Species caught in 2018: Perch. Bream. Rainbow Trout. Brown Trout. Chub. Roach. Carp. European Eel.

Species caught in 2017: Siamese carp. Striped catfish. Rohu. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Black Minnow Shark. Perch. Chub. Brown Trout. Pike. Bream. Roach. Rudd. Bleak. Common Carp.

Species caught in 2016: Siamese carp. Jullien's golden carp. Striped catfish. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Alligator gar. Rohu. Black Minnow Shark. Roach, Bream, Perch, Ballan Wrasse. Rudd. Common Carp. Pike. Zander. Chub. Bleak.

Species caught in 2015: Brown Trout. Roach. Bream. Terrapin. Eel. Barbel. Pike. Chub.

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