Possible answer to deep hooking

[poledark]

Been doing a bit of piking this week, had 9 up to 13lbs so well pleased. Also lost 4 or 5, probably due to striking to early.

 

I was using half herrings with a large single thro' the tail or head and a No 4 semi barbed treble about 4" below.

 

I have a dread of deep hooking so always strike as soon as I see the float move, (hence some missed fish) but one take went while I was having a pee and would have been deep hooked except that the big single had caught in the scissors and this prevented the treble and bait being swallowed.

 

This has got me wondering; if I were to whip a single (or treble) upside down to the top hook (a single) it may/should prevent the trace from being swallowed, as this would almost certainly catch on the mouth on its way in.

 

Here is a little sketch...

 

 

 

 

Den

Edited November 6, 2008 by poledark

[Neil G]

Interesting, I suppose the principle is a bit like the anti gorge rigs you get for eel fishing which have a 'bar' further up the trace from the hook to stop the fish from swallowing the bait. I don't think a hook would stop the bait from being swallowed though as a pike flaring it's gills to suck up a bait the whole lot would probably just go down if you weren't careful and it could prove harder to get the hooks out if there were any deep hooking issues.

Edited November 7, 2008 by Neil G

[Armarnold]

well, thats an interesting idea den, one thats got me thinking abit

[poledark]

Good point Neil, but if that were to happen then the fish would be deep hooked anyway before you could strike.

 

Several of the fish I have caught this week had the top hook caught in the scissors, so that may have been preventing the bait being swallowed anyway. Probably has always happened, but it was only because I was taken by surprise yesterday, that I took notice.

 

Can't do any harm, so I will give it a try today

 

Den

[Andy Macfarlane]

That might just be a good idea Den. I dunno what ye might whip the hooks together with. Maybe some 49 strand and a lick of epoxy??

[Dick Dastardly]

Its funny you should mention this Den.I used to use the "Uni rig" that you have been using for a lot of my deadbaiting in my early piking days. A large percentage of the fish landed on it were hooked in the scissors by the single (I used a size 4 or 2 carp hook).Never really thought about it much before and dont really know why that was.

 

As Ive never had a problem with unhooking trebles (now) Ive not used it since.Yes it wasnt as good at hook ups as two trebles but I would still like to know why it worked the way it did as understanding the mechanics might be a clue as how we could improve rigs full stop.

 

Be interested in hearing how your "upside down single" works.I dont think experienced pikers would find much need for it but it would certainly be easier to deal with the problem for newcomers/occaisional pikers by reccomending a simple rig such as this than the long drawn out battle to teach them unhooking.

[wayne baker]

Interesting concept, But i have to agree with Neil it could cause more problems in the event of the fish swallowing the bait. most times when we set the hooks in a fish essepially when fishing with deads most of the time i belive the bait is already well back in the mouth, Its just the striking process that brings the hooks to the front of the mouth. The manner in which a pike takes a bait is quiet a site when it sucks in the water and flares its gill covers, It might be ok for smaller fish when they take a big bait but i wouldnt be confident with it working with anything over ten pounds or so. There really is no substitute for fishing wisely and with vigilance. I always strike early, As soon as i know the line is moving i strike, I would rather miss the odd fish than risk deep hooking one

[lutra]

I'm not an experienced piker, but it seems to make good sense to me and it will be interesting to hear how you get on. Cant see why it would be any harder to unhook than a pair of trebles if it was to go down deep.

[poledark]

I'm not an experienced piker, but it seems to make good sense to me and it will be interesting to hear how you get on. Cant see why it would be any harder to unhook than a pair of trebles if it was to go down deep.

 

That was my thinking too as the hook would be facing inwards, then it should just slide out?

 

Discussed this with a couple of pikers today and did a "lashup"...couldn't really see any problems or any dangerous aspects, but didn't get any takes today

 

It may be that a little more thought as to exactly where the extra hook is placed would be useful, maybe closer to the bottom treble? or halfway between the two hooks?

 

And, even if it only works for 10% of my fish, then it would seem to be worthwhile.

 

As Budgie has said, using the standard setup, even though the single was often in the scissors when a fish was landed, there is no way of knowing whether it caught on the way in, or the way out

 

Have a little play around with setups please (not on the bank though) and see what you can come up with.

 

Den

[poledark]

Further thoughts, Two of you have mentioned "experienced pikers" and maybe I have given the wrong impression. I have seriously pike fished for over 50 years, ranging from all winter every winter in my younger days, to the 4 or six weeks I do each year now. Even my 4 or 6 weeks amounts to about 25 days fishing.

 

I am not looking to delay striking (never occured to me) but with the best will in the world, and watching the floats like a hawk, it is still possibe for a pike to partly swallow the bait before giving any indication. Seen it happen to loads of pikers and it happens to me on occasions, which is one of the reasons I don't do a lot more piking,

 

I agonise over every take, miss loads of fish through striking to early, and quite honestly I am, almost, "glad when I have had enough" each season

 

Even if I stick with this idea for a while, I shall continue to strike as soon as the float moves.

 

Den