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#11 Guest_chris pledge_*

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Posted 11 February 2000 - 04:02 AM

Hi everyone.

Once again you have made some good points Mike, can I detect a slight change of heart on the funding argument Posted Image

What do the lurkers out there think?

Anybody out there have suggestions on how Angling UK can be taken forward...?

#12 Guest_waterman1013_*

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Posted 11 February 2000 - 03:07 PM

Good morning Chris

No I don't think I'm having a change of heart. I would love for the tackle makers to come up with the dosh - I just fear it is a pipe dream. At the end of the day we will have to pay to support our sport.

However if any of the lurkers out there are running profit making tackle companies we would be more than pleased to sign them up to SACG or one of the Governing Bodies to help with the long term fiancing of fishing representation.

Chrsi I don't know if you realise but lots of us are starting to read the commercial fishing press because the fight for our rights and the future of sea angling, in particular, are dirtectly affected by the development of industrial fishing and in many areas of conflict with the EU and Governemnt we share the problems of the commercial boys. Environmentally we will, I am sure, start to work with the commercials to protect future stocks from over fishing as we must with lots of other enviroonmental groups if we are to protect habits world wide.

To all you lurkers, come on in, this is not a private conversation Chris and I are having! Let's hear your views, they really matter at this important moment in angling history.

Mike Posted Image
Mike

#13 Guest_chris pledge_*

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Posted 12 February 2000 - 05:05 PM

Hi Mike

Yes I'm on top of the commercial press situation, found an item recently which stated that vessels targeted record concentrations of juvenile cod found inshore.

As many as 50% of these fish were dumped because they were undersized, but this fishery was allowed to continue until it was exhausted.... Posted Image

As you have said this is not a private conversation, we need others taking part...we need more input to stop the commercial fishing industry carrying out such wholesale slaughter.... Posted Image

There must be others out there who care Posted Image

[This message has been edited by Elton (edited 12 February 2000).]

#14 Guest_Elton_*

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Posted 12 February 2000 - 06:10 PM

Just in case anyone wonders, the only editing I did to the above was the addition of three colons to make the 'smilies'(rather innapropriate word!) appear. i.e. if you take :mad and put a colon after it, you get Posted Image

Elton

------------------
Elton Murphy
Anglers' Net
http://www.anglersnet.co.uk

#15 Guest_Nobrot_*

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Posted 15 February 2000 - 07:41 PM

Hi Mike, hi Chris,

Mike already knows that I do care passionately about all things environmental - as do the majority of anglers.

Research that we've undertaken demonstrates that the majority of anglers - although far from being sandal-wearing tree-huggers - are intimately aware of their environmental responsibilities.

What is also very noticeable, however, is that - present company excepted - the majority of anglers are pretty apolitical - and like it that way.

They would much rather beaver away behind the scenes, picking up other people's litter and attending working parties to carry out environmental improvements, without making a song and a dance.

Past experience has shown that when SOME anglers are politicised, they tend to open their mouths without engaging their brains and reserve their most vitriolic jibes for their fellow anglers. This must stop.

But in this day and age, politics and society are so riddled with hype, that you need to make a lot of noise before anybody pays attention.

I'm thinking of running a campaign to increase awareness of angling's green credentials outside the angling arena. Any ideas on how we could make it work?

Mark

#16 Guest_davidP_*

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Posted 16 February 2000 - 03:11 AM

My experience Mark is that yes, the majority of anglers may be apolotical, but they also couldn't give a toss about any angling other than their own.
In the mid-90's I spent a few years as Treasurer of a largish West Midlands association (1200 members at one time, 20 or so affiliated clubs and about 25 waters) and the apathy of most anglers has to be seen to be believed. We used to struggle to get just 2 members from each affiliated club on the bank for work parties at the start of the season. I would say that about 90% of the work was done by a core of about 30 or 40 individuals most of whom were either club or association officials. I would also say that maybe 80% of those who ever turned up to help were match anglers. The specimen anglers worked hard when it was 'their' water but were otherwise often conspicous by their absence. The pleasure angler was almost an extinct species! There were of course one or two in each category who performed quite heroic amounts of work for little or no recognition but they really were the exception rather than the rule and I'm afraid to say often ended up leaving in discust at the way they were treated by the 'ordinary' anglers who did nothing but complain often in most vindictive ways. There was a point when it appeared that the most active workers were actually from the local disabled angling club who were often working in extreme pain but perhaps because of their disabilities could value more what angling gave them and hence put more back. When you see a guy who can barely walk struggling to clean pegs whilst abled bodied anglers walk past him to fish and complain that he missed in snag in their peg then you begin to wonder about folk.
The flip side is that whilst the match anglers did most of the work they also were the biggest whingers (not the same anglers I hasten to add!) The specimen boys didn't complain too much probably because they tended to be loners who'd just sort out their own peg and get on with it, whilst the pleasure anglers just didn't talk to anyone other than to complain that 15 quid was too much for a years fishing (unbelievable but totally true - one of my unfond memories is having just that 'discussion' with a bloke who I knew had just spent 800 quid on a pole!!), or that their favourite waters were 'always' booked for matches (meaning that the 1 peg out of 100 that they wanted to fish was booked and they couldn't be bothered to walk to one of the 70 left unbooked).
Anyway, where is this ramble leading? Well I supose it's to say that in my opinion until something absolutely fundamental happens that totally threatens angling with extinction then I don't think we will ever see a fully united front. I'm sad to say that until this happens nobody will be prepared to put their hands in their pockets to pay for it or even to get off their 300 quid conti-boxes and make themselves heard. It's just too much effort for them to do it. As an example, how many individual members did the NFA recruit when they opened up membership? I doubt it scraped into 3 figures. How many anglers are members of the ACA despite all the press and publicity that receives? Yet those same guys are shelling out a tenner and more a time to fish holes in the ground full of carp, and that doesn't even include the cost of the gallons of maggots, 20 brands of method feeder etc etc! This is not an attempt to decry those anglers who fish like that as in many ways I think that the big money commercial fisheries may help 'save' angling because money talks, but I'm afraid that until these anglers come under direct attack then a united front just won't happen, and I would strongly suspect that if that time ever does come then it's probably too late anyway.

Wow, this sounds such a pessimistic post, but I do believe that at the end of the day most anglers will just be too apathetic to save themselves. I just hope it doesn't come in my lifetime.

David P
Now in Berkshire where the cost of club membership would make the Midlanders fall off their wallets!

#17 Guest_waterman1013_*

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Posted 16 February 2000 - 11:53 PM

Hi Mark and DavidP

Welcome to the one series of posts which matters around here! Posted Image

Mark - yes we have to take the green message beyond the angling press, we need those national paper columns back and we need some good stuff in the quality press to influence decision makers and opinion formers. That is why angling unity is so vital. And its why I will fight like anything to help achieve it.

I think part of the problem is that the mass of anglers (perhaps of the whole population) see politics it terms of PARTY. For me party is of no importance, politicians as a breed will deal with angling according to the wishes of the majority and we must be influencing those who can and do influence others. Recent statements by the PM about the future security of angling are just so much drivel, which IF he believes what he says, just proves that he knows nothing about how Parliament is meant to work and the basics of democracy.

All anglers are potential voting fodder to politicians and we must ensure that they, their advisors and the public appreciate the ecological importance of the work anglers do.

Mark I love the idea, I'll give it some thought and come back to you on it.

David, I know the feeling, we get 35-50 members at our club AGM with 400 member potential. Many members only appear just before the work party season with their doctors notes as a n excuse for not doing the work. Older members generally do huge amounts, right through the season. I don't find our matchmen are that good at work parties, nor the specimen boys, most of our committed members are pleasure anglers, of a certain age, who have had a lifetimes enjoymwent from the sport and understand that you only get out what you put in. Younger people often don't realise this until a bit later in life, and perhaps that's no bad thing as they should have other priorities.

It's very easy to get downhearted by others attitudes but you have to plough your own furrow in this world and hope that what you do makes a difference and that someone, somewhere might appreciate your efforts. I think part of the problem is that too often we have people sitting on club committees for years on end and other members feeling that it is a closed shop.

My own club had a committe composed of 30 year members mostly and was going nowhere. We now have a committee composed of young guys mostly, if I left the average age would drop below 40, so there are good people coming along with commitment. They need encouraging and space to develop. I sometimes feel that I carry a twig from the likes of Dick Walker and Ton Williams that must be handed on to a generation that follows to ensure that my grandchildren and great grandchildren can fish if they want to.

There's a saying in latin that translates as "Don't let the bastards grind you down", the majority will always lets us "hotheads" lead from the front. In WW1 we would have been 1st over the top, simply because we are that type of nutcase, it doesn't demean those that are not like us. We all need the differences and the sometimes negative attitude from the majority is what people with ideas in all walks of lfe have to put up with. I don't think anglers are any worse than any other group.

And anyway the fish and other wildlife we all enjoy, and their protection, are worth any amount of hard work and dedication. Here ends the lesson! Posted Image

ttfn and tight thingies

Mike

#18 Guest_chris pledge_*

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Posted 21 February 2000 - 01:14 AM

Evening all.

Nice to see a couple of more keyboards making an input to this thread (welcome Mark & David P).

Your idea's on Angling's Credentials are a step in the right direction Mark, we need more "good press" like this.

Perhaps the first move might be to start another thread along these lines so that others out there with ideas can participate?

Apathy is an age old problem in our sport, and one that will not dissapear very easily, as Mike says hard work is needed, this is one area that should be addressed by all of the major bodies as soon as possible.

Which brings me full circle in some respects, getting those bodies to work as one in the first place!

It would be nice if we could get some comments from the leaders of our respective angling branches to participate in this forum - or is that just too much wishful thinking?

The important point is that as anglers we must decide our own future, if we dont, others will do it for us.

A scenario I personally would'nt want to see!

Chris

#19 Guest_waterman1013_*

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Posted 21 February 2000 - 12:53 PM

Hi Chris

Happy Monday.

I agree wholeheartedly. Anglers must control their own destiny.

#20 Guest_RobStubbs_*

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Posted 22 February 2000 - 02:11 PM

Chris,
I can see in theory it would be nice to get comments from the leaders of our respective branches of angling (I wonder if we are all thinking of the same bodies/people ?). In practice I think a lot of the discussions have to go on behind closed doors whether or not more should be pulicised depends on the sensitivity but there should be more info than there is, in the public domain. However publicity relies on the press wanting to publish things which they are often reluctant to do (less than half of the press releases I've sent to them have appeared in print). That said sites such as this one and this forum are all much better at disseminating information.

I do wonder if anglers using the internet have a lower 'apathy factor' than anglers in general. It's much easier to type out some comments here than it ever is to write a letter (which may appear in a couple of weeks or not at all).

Finally I couldn't agree more on your last point, we are the guardians of our own destiny and it's up to us to ensure we, as anglers, have a future.

Rob.

<snip>
>>Which brings me full circle in some respects, getting those bodies to work as one in the first place!

It would be nice if we could get some comments from the leaders of our respective angling branches to participate in this forum - or is that just too much wishful thinking?

The important point is that as anglers we must decide our own future, if we dont, others will do it for us.

A scenario I personally would'nt want to see!

Chris>>