thedogs

Hello all, Just had my Dad bring Graham Picket (EX CEFAS) round for a quick cup of tea. We were chatting about un-licensed angling vessels selling their catches. He agreed that it has always been a problem to varying degrees, and there have been people prosecuted in the past. The Inland Revenue apparently are very interested in this undeclared income.

Thank god for that! at least one person lives in the real world.

One of the reasons RSA didn’t get anywhere was anglers didn’t really get behind it. The main reason for this I think was fairly bad representation (and no I’m not saying I could do better). The lack of knowledge shown by people like you Adrian regarding commercial practises is astonishing! Surely to make such argument that are made you need some understanding of what you opponent is up to A cap on effort would leave more fish in the sea and my reason for posting this was that I feel by taking out the trash in the way of unlicensed commercial vessels would have been capped in its own way. If I get just one unlicensed boat nicked for selling its catch that will be a few stones more bass staying in my rivers. This is far more than BASS, SACN and the poxy NFSA have done for me! If you think that un licensed commercial boats have no effect on fish stocks I’m afraid your living on another planet!

Hi Barry, As I said a few posts back I have spoken at length to the fisheries officer about it!

I’m quite sure that I will never reach the standard that you display!

There is several angling boats in the two rivers i fish that regularly sell their fish. Thornbacks, bass and codling mainly. There are also on occasions a few small boats with a few hundred yards of net and no numbers on them. I can’t say they are selling what they catch but collectively they have an impact on stocks locally. I should imagine they are not doing it just for love! Adrian I maybe a offensive little man, however you are an offensive old man who has learnt the art of offence for many years longer than I.

Also Adrian I must say your atitude sticks! I have written to you via e-mail and you couldnt make an argument without being nasty. I do have experience in both RSA and commercial fishing which you as far as I know do not. Im in regular contact with lots of very good concervation minded anglers as well as one or two very concervation minded commercial fishermen. This atitude of all commercials would flog their grannies has got RSA nowhere! Now you guys have buggered it up for the next generation as there are not many commercials now who would talk to anglers. Talking is the only way to provide action, just spouting crap like you do has not worked has it?

To be honist Adrian I know your just after a argument. I know this is happening and always did happen. I have reported my concerns to the K&E,SFC, who are inturn reporting to MFA. I would not have reported without a good saurse or evidence.

Hi Steve, There are many more hobby netters and people using rod and line selling their catches that most would think. Bass, cod and thornbacks are easily outed privatly and with the price of fuel now days this could possable increase if not policed properly. Was good to hear about those gready commercials getting knicked, thats whats needed a good deterrant.

I think many would be suprised how many anglers do sell their catch! When I was a lad of 15 years old I would buy fish from local commercial fishermen and sell them around the the houses of my village. In the end I had to stop as I couldnt compete with anglers doing the same. I tried to build up some restaurants and tried to set up a small fish sales business about 7 years ago doing the same thing, again I couldnt compete with anglers.

Bring it on! If all the black fish sales were stopped that includes fish caught and sold by licensed commercial fishermen out of quota, the hobby netter, and the so called recreational angling boats who sell their catches, then this would be one hell of a decrease in fish coming out of the estuaries. A lot of anglers talk of a cap on effort being the only what forward and I would agree. Police the fishery properly, and take out the crap and effort is cut without even touching the law abiding commercial fishermen. The fines seen so far are to my mind encouraging and should help act as a deterrent to those commercials that are to selling black fish. What’s needed now if for a few so-called recreational angling boats to be caught selling their catches! Then forget the slapped wrist knick them, then fine them enough so that it also stands as a deterrent!

Glenn, there are no hard and fast rules mate. Dawn and dusk are probably the best time off day. I also like a falling set of tides . If the tides are big it can send the fish all over the estuary and has a tendancey to push them into shallower water. On smaller neep tides the fish can be found sometimes in numbers in the deeper areas. Will P/M you more details and my mobile so we can have a chat. You could very well be sitting on a gold mine of gooid sized bass, but it takes time to work areas out.

I tried, but still your rudeness continues, and now your insulting my Dad but saying you wasted time fishing with him. Did I insult your family. I give up tr=ying to be nice to you.

I find the challenge of using my watercraft skills to locate fish enough of a challenge without competing against other anglers. I enjoy the freedom of choosing my mark rather than pulling it out of a hat. But hay every one to there own and I have nothing against anglers who chose to fish in matches. I was lucky enough to be bought up having a Dad who ran a charter boat and a mother that suffered from depression. This meant that Dad would take me out on his charter boat at every opportunity. I learnt to cast a multiplier long before I learnt how to use a fixed spool reel. From the age of four I was given my own little rod and was catching codling, whiting and even a 10lb smoothound one day. As soon as Dad felt it safe I was allowed to fish from the bow of his boat, then I started catching lots of good fish, often out fishing the ten or twelve paying punters. Although I have not had any really massive fish I have caught thousands of decent fish, and have witnessed some truly amazing catches. Like three tope over 65 in one afternoon in the mid 80s. 85 bass in 83 casts all tagged by Mr Pickett of MAFF. I could go on and on as twenty-five years has lead to some great memories and as my friends would tell you some very funny and entertaining stories. At about fifteen years old I started crewing for local commercial Nicky Boyce, on an un-paid basis. This later lead to me working for him when I left school. So Adrian, if you would be prepared to come to Essex and berry the verbal hatchet I would be happy to take you for a days bass fishing out on my little dory the Raptor. Then we could have a good chat and get the measure of each other face to face.

I’m afraid I couldn’t carry on being a member of any of the groups that claim to represent me. The NFSAs potty chairman’s idea of a sea angling strategy and all its following drafts was the start. Then there is the great BASS with their 500 very friendly members that follow their leaders propagandas like sheep. Very good at spouting what they call facts, but often full short when it comes to correct information. Then the SACN or should I say Leon, with his gentlemanly persona and un-equalled skills in cutting and pasting of both other peoples information and ideas. This is sad, as up until Leon’s boots got far to big the SACN was a good point of reference when it came to RSA and conservation. Bitter? Well yes I am mainly because at one time I held these organisations (with exception of the NFSA) with high regard. Then I woke up and smelt the coffee, realising that in fact they were doing more harm than good to the future of my sport and the freedoms that I currently enjoy. So Adrian you see this is personal, I am very angry that people like you, Leon and ruddy Richar Frere(or what ever his name is) go poking your very unskilled noses into the future of sea angling.

The problem is ignorance on behalf of 99% of RSA.. BASS put out info and I expect most of their member take this as the truth, where as in fact it may be missinformation. If RSA wants to get anywhere they need to stop ALL the anti commercial properganda and try to enducate themselves with the facts. BASS, SACN and the ruddy NFSA I think have and will continue to damage RSA with their half cocked efforts. I just hope that in my area commercial effort continues at the level it is at now. There has been a large decrease in commercial effort over the past fifteen years. Now the fishing has got better and better yearafter year. I hope that the commercial fishermen left realise this fact and do all they can to stop others moving in. RSA got it wrong from the beginning to my mind, they should have tried talking to the commercial fishermen that are left instead of slagging them off with all the wall of death talk, and other misstruths.

My views are based on where all this has got RSA so far. Don’t kid yourselves into thinking that the status quos would be any different if RSA had no representation. I was told yesterday that there is a article in the Fishing News by BASS regarding the amount of gill nets being used by commercials inshore. I must say I haven’t read it yet but will do so I know the facts. But I was told that BASS are saying that some boats are using 35k of nets, well that is a physical impossibility. That amount of bass nets wouldn’t fit on a 35-foot boat. The only way that amount of gear could be used would be if it was fixed ray nets (often called tangle nets) these nets have very large meshes that will not fill up with weed and other rubbish if left for long periods of time. Bass nets are not often fixed now days they are mostly drifted. Can you imagine drifting 35k of 90 mil or even 110 mil mesh nets. It would be impossible to keep tabs on that amount of nets. If this gear were fixed the first fleet would be so full of weed by the time the last fleet had been shot it would be impossible to haul. Basically what I’m saying is that I feel BASS have put out so much misinformation over the years that its not surprising no one will listen anymore. If you want to go up against a force like the commercial fleet, a force that has public opinion behind it, you need to be correct in the information that is put out, other wise you lose credibility. Now as I keep saying my fishing is almost as good as it’s ever been, and I am old enough to have seen the remarkable catches of yesteryear. I’m not saying this fishing doesn’t need looking after it does! But it needs looking after by a body that knows what its doing its onions and that sure as hell aint BASS, SACN or the ruddy NFSA. Personally I would trust the commercial fleet to wake up and smell the coffee, then start the look after the fishery, rather than it be left to RSAs motley crew. As Steve C said no representation is far better than bad representation, which is I must say what we have now!

QUOTE: H.A. Realistically, of course, anglers aren't going to win very much at all because we are not seen as 'producers' worth investing in. All the same, the small notice that Defra has taken of us (BMP, SFC representation, tope consultation etc; not to mention the dozens of small contributions made in debate by people like me and you, Steve), would not have been established were it not for some discourse between sea anglers and government. But the achievements amount to bugger all Adrian, the tope consultation and the new laws do little to protect tope as they are allowed to catch them as a buy catch, which is how most were caught already. As Steve C said no representation is better than bad representation. But Im not out for a vast discussion with you as I have tried this many times even using personal messenger. All you have ever done is be very rude to me, even taking the Mickey out of my dyslexia. I understand that you once stood on a SFC, well now you do not it must be better for sea anglers. I just want it all to stop, every body to pull out and just leave things as they are, damage limitation if you like. My fishing is good in some cases better than ever and yes I am ruddy old enough to remember good fishing.

SACN are good at cut and pasting!

Great!

This very large ship works on the edges of the outer sand bars in the Thames Estuary. Surley this can not be good for eco systems that inhabit these places. I thought any eco system needed a good foundation in order to servive. Although the sand bars are not a fixed area as they are always moveing due to wind and tide, these are totally nateral event, unlike what the Sand Fulmer is doing.

Thanks mate.. Elton, when can I take you out fishing then? Got some decent auterm bassing minutes from my moreing.

Mica is his daughters name and his Mum is May Rose.. Hisv last boat was Mica Lou, after his daughter and wife.