tiddlertamer
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Posts posted by tiddlertamer
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The question I have is whether complicated shirt button patterns actually help when trotting a river such as the Hampshire Avon.
Alternatively, is bulk shotting (my personal preference about 10 inches from the hook) more effective.
The marvelous Bernard Venables wrote and illustrated complicated shirt button style patterns.
The distinguished Richard Walker certainly preferred the bulk shot method.
This topic was sparked by seeing something similar posted on the Fishing Magic forum.
Sadly an interesting topic descended into a bit of a name calling bout - not the sort of thing that would ever happen on the more distinguished Anglers Net
(LOL)I assume it takes a longer time for shirt button style shotted bait and hook to reach the bottom, thus allowing more of an opportunity for fish to take the bait in the upper and middle layers of the water.
When else is shirt button style effective?
Advice given to me from a fantastic river keeper on the Avon was to bulk shot and that has been sound advice in my opinion.
What do others here think?
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If angling was to get recognised as an Olympic event, you could almost hear the darts players sharpening their 'arrers in readiness. Then maybe the Crown Green Bowling clubs would be clamouring for recognition. And would the French push for Boules to be on the agenda?
Where would it all end - dominoes?
Just a thought
Angling an Olympic Sport? This weekend it almost come true thanks to the exploits of 'three blonds in a boat'. What am I talking about?
Well, it looked for a moment like a typing error and no spellchecker would be happy but congratulations need to go out to the 'yngling' winners in Beijing...
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I caught the same perch three times in two hours today...
It had a distinctive mark on its right flank where something had had a go at it. Definitely the same fish.
Not a big un - only a few ounces - but a greedy bugger...
Caught it on the River Lee.
Is it common to catch the same fish so often in such a small time scale?
Anybody else experienced something like this or is it a ten a penny experience.
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Not to mention boring and pointless. What is up with AN at the mo? Where did all the interesting topics go, if everyone wants an argument can't we just start a 'pointless arguement' or 'I refuse to listen or change my opinion' or 'so and so is a big stink face' forum so the rest of us can get on with more fruitful topics?
Rich
P.s. I think this topic could/should be moved to conservation
Post an interesting question then methinks... And let those who want to discuss, what is clearly an emotive issue, the chance to discuss it... Emma and Vagabond may hate what i say and vice versa but I hope we all respect each other's right to debate. And learn. Something I have from other's views here... Not all though!
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Not entirely fair TT as not all of us try and turn every thread into a anti Eastern European issue.
Also I personaly dont care who takes a fish as long as its done correctly.As Im sure neither do many others. That said being of a different nationality doesnt excuse rule breaking.I have to stick to local rules when I fish abroad and more so ensure I am aware and understand them.
No double standards from a lot on here.In fact the only ones Ive read here knocking the taking of fish have also done so across the board so whether their point is right or wrong at least its consistant!
Its a great shame though when every thread on here decends to the same subject though.
You are undoubtedly an honorable angler and I always appreciate your intelligent posts.
I certainly don't think that everyone on this forum is anti-European.
I do think though that there are double standards within UK angling - just read the angling press on the horrors of anybody east of Lowestoft in relation to barbecued coarse fish. Meanwhile, here on Anglers Net, we exchange recipes...
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Just got back from holiday and the thread is still going!
A few tasty comments have been flying around, with the odd one hurtled in my direction. Thanks for that boys and girls. I would let it all die down but, having been away, I do feel I should state my case again so people have the option of understanding my simple argument or get the chance to get all hot under the collar again...
Here goes.
First of all, for the record, I was in Barcelona and not Krakow… Notwithstanding this, my argument does relate to Eastern Europe.
Angling forums and the UK angling press are awash with horror stories of Eastern Europeans in the UK catching and eating fish. I remember five articles in one single issue of one of the two major UK angling papers recently.
I can't say I am particularly keen on anybody taking a coarse fish home for the pot and yet I'm also not keen of the moral panic whipped up by the media about Eastern Europeans.
It appears that some UK anglers take coarse fish for the pot themselves – as the posts on this forum indicate - and yet there is no outcry about this.
Surely this is double standards.
Its OK for Emma or Vagabond to take fish. God forbid if you post the same message here under the name Emmski or Vagabondislawa though...
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Please tell me why you think this TT?
Sustainability of stocks would be my first reason. Can we afford to regularly lose our biggest fish? Why not put them back for someone else to catch? I'd be miffed seeing someone taking something for the pot... the 2lb stripey that in a few years time might just be the fish of a lifetime...
Recent years has rightly seen a move towards looking after fish - fish mats (I confess I don't use one but might just by one after a 12lb 1oz barbel last week which deserved more than my paltry landing net), barbless hooks, the diminishing use of keep nets... need I go on.
And yet our media and internet forums are full of racist bile against Eastern European migrants because they eat coarse fish whilst at the same time angling aficionados on this forum promote recipes for them. Double standards methinks...
If it's bad for eastern europeans, then its bad for people elsewhere too...
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I shoot and eat Rabbits, Pigeons, Pheasant, Partridge, Duck, Goose, Roe deer and Red deer.
I take and eat the occasional Trout, Salmon, Pike and Perch. I used to take eels but not at the moment.
I catch and enjoy eating Cod, Haddock and Mackerel from the sea.
I think that all of the above are sustainable, at least where I live.
I like to know where my food comes from.
I do not eat intensively reared and badly slaughtered farm animals and I only buy free range eggs and chicken from the farm.
I do not believe that intensive farming practice as currently carried on is sustainable and it should not be supported.
Almost all of my friends and acquaintances feel the same way.
Thankfully 99.9% of the folk in this country don't want to and wouldn't know how to, so that's OK then and if our Eastern European cousins come up here to try it the keepers will get them.
Hypocrisy and xenophobia in one post. Sadly par for the coarse (sic) around here.
Slagging off Eastern European migrants whilst advocating a nice recipe for perch or pike. You couldn't make it up...
Let's defend our coarse stocks... Its not OK to eat them whether you are from Walsall or Warsaw.
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My comment which seems to have caused such upset, 'bashing the head in with a rock' was deliberatly put like that to illustrate how awful the sight of an ill prepared (priestless) angler looking around for a blunt instrument is, and liable to bring angling into disrepute far more than our 'in house' discussion. The reality is sometimes fish are killed, either for the table or as an act of mercy either way it should be done efficiantly. Is it that we are so keen to appease these 'antis' that we dare not even use the words 'fish' and 'dead' in the same sentence? Earlier this year I saw two men trying to kill a trout, now given that they had set out to catch fish to eat, it might have reasonably followed that they would have given some thought as to how they would do this. As it turned out they impotently alternated between hitting the fish with the butt of a fly rod, and hitting the rod with the fish!
The recipe given in response to a request.
'coarse fish' is a label imposed upon a group of species by humans, I can see no ethical reason why one should not eat these species. It appears to be a cuturally specific thing, we tend not to get upset in the same way over the killing and eating of fish which we have given different labels, specifically 'game' and 'sea' (although I do accept that adherants to those styles of angling increasingly 'catch and release' too).
Why is it so wrong to kill and eat a Perch? do those of you who clearly object to this practice equally berate someone who eats Haddock and chips? and if not why not?
The suggestion that those of us who eat some of what we catch do not 'respect' the fish is nonsense, think about the relationship between the plains Indians and the bison or the nomadic Lapps and the reindeer, the whole lifestyle and economy of those peoples revolved around the killing and eating of those species which were elevated to god like status. The 2 species which I afford the most 'respect', perch and brown trout are the ones which I am most likley to eat.
Common sense does need to be applied, it makes no sense to kill all the fish in a given water, as someone pointed out some fish may be re-captured. I think that the size, type of water and numbers of fish present (and thier potential to sustain their numbers) are important variables. however for me it's like this, almost all the Perch I catch nowadays come from the same water. It is almost 4 miles long and 3/4 of a mile wide. If in a session i see 2 other anglers then it was 'crowded day' on the lake . Over 90% of the Perch I catch are returned unharmed right away. The few i keep for the table are cleanly killed followed by my leaving an offering to the spirit of the land ( not all 'tree-huggers are 'antis'). I honestly don't belive that if I returned thse fish that i would ever be likley to see those individuals again, nor do I believe that I am inpacting negatively on either the quality or quantity of Perch in that lake. if one were to fish a small water with a limited number of fish then it would be irresponsible to kill them.
Perch and the odd trout are the only species which I take home. Everything else goes back including Salmon and migratory trout. I refrain from eating cows, pigs, sheep, poultry and farmed fish for what I belive are good ethical reasons. However its a highly personal thing, we all make or moral decisions, and because it's personal I don't take the moral high ground and go around lecturing people eating pork pies or steak dinners and in the same way I would thank those who feel that they are better placed to dictate what I should be eating then I am myself to mind their own business.
Respect for an interesting and heartfelt reply. Don't agree with all of it but appreciate some of the sentiments.
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But suggest that someone might take the odd fish for the pot and there is uproar.
Dare to post a recipe, and the cry of indignation is deafening.
Complete and utter hypocrisy.
John.
Carp recipes anyone? Its a bit different from the normal chat about unhooking mats... you couldn't make it up...
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Hardys have returned to the coarse market.
They are expensive.
They are also absolutely amazing.
My experience is that the customer service is great. When I had a problem, they responded magnificently, even though it was my idiocy that had caused the problem.
More importantly, the products are sublime... their float rods are to die for...
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Week in, week out, all the angling papers and in many of the angling forums, a minority of people bang on in a xenophobic way about eastern Europeans eating all our coarse fish.
Columnists such as Keith Arthur, anglings 'most opinionated voice' call for purges too on creatures such as otters.
I find it all a bit tiresome.
Blooming heck - do we really think that garroting Tarka or kneecapping Jan is the way to safeguard angling in the UK?
I do find it a bit odd though that someone posts recipes about coarse fish on this forum. I have a track record on this forum of opposing live baiting and the charge of anti has often been thrown at me in debate.
But actually l love the taste of fish and eat it often. Seafood rules when it comes to my choice of a night out. I just feel when I am out there fishing on our rivers that I should put it back for the other members of the angling fraternity.
Imagine eating the 1lb perch that might well have gone to be the largest fish on your local river. I'd be a bit miffed at that person...
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Hardys are simply sublime for rods and reels since re-entering the coarse fishing market.
I love their float rods. I'll grant they aren't the cheapest but they perform like a dream.
And after constant nagging from the fine denizens of this forum, I now intend to get a centrepin . A Hardys centrepin. I rung the company up for advice on what reel was best suited for my rod and got a call from Dave Coster in response. Class.
Good customer service and great products.
As to tackle, what about Anchor shot. So much softer on the line than the other brands I come across in London angling shops...
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Tiddlertamer are you using a CP or fixed spool reel ?
Fixed spool reel for the time-being. Want to attempt to master that first though may well invest in a centrepin sometime down the line...
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As some of you may have read :) I caught my first 40lb carp a short while ago from a "new" lake. I have struggled there since..until today that is.........
Caught the carp on a maggot loaded method feeder.
Got my first 20+ pike today
:)..................on a maggot loaded method feeder 
I am still hoping for one of the many double figure tench in this lake, what's the odds on my next fish being one of them?
And should I continue with the maggot loaded method feeder?
Oh!! Happy days
Den
These tactics aren't working for you Den.
Time to try something new methinks...
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On fast flowing rivers - like wot I usually fish - striking as such isn't really necessary. If you're in constant contact with the float (a centrepin reel helps immeasurably with this) and using a braid such as Fireline (great for trottings as it floats and 'mends' well) then a simple tightening of the line is often all thats needed. Check the reel with your thumb is maybe all thats needed - perhaps accompanied with a merest flick of the wrist. Striking too hard can pull the bait out of the mouth and disturb the swim if the float is constantly causing a disturbance on the surface... When I'm trotting I'll tighten up at ANYTHING the float does which I consider usual - a slight change of direction, a slowing in the current etc. At the end of the trot try holding back for several seconds (I often count to 20!) - with the bait fluttering in the current - fish will often hook themselves - no strike needed!
C.
On the whole, if I strike at slight dips of the float, I strike into nothing and sometimes make a complete ham-fisted and clumsy mess by launching my tackle back at myself. Do'h. Obviously I'm striking too hard - I guess when I strike too lamely the fish invariably come off before I land them so I need to find a happy medium.
It does seem to be the case when I wait for the float to disappear then I invariably catch but I do wonder if I am missing too much on the way...
Others have recommended braid to me over monofilament whilst others swear it is not necessary. What do other anglers net members think?
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See the following link - it goes to a thread on this site on fishing on the Stour near Canterbury. A few years old but hopefully still helpful:
http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/River-S...-east-t843.html
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I spend most of my time float fishing on rivers – trotting a stick float.
Sometimes, the float will disappear, I strike, and I'm into a fish.
At other times, the float will waver, maybe dip, but not disappear. I strike and lo and behold I'm into a fish.
At other times, the float will waver, maybe dip, but not disappear. I won't strike but when I retrieve my line, the bait has been stolen.
At other times, the float will waver, maybe dip, but not disappear. I will strike but there is no sign of a fish.
Now of course, every river is different, varying weather conditions and the different types and sizes of fish play a part in my question.
Getting to the point though, here is my question.
Should I, in most occasions actually wait for the magical disappearance of the float before striking?
By striking as soon as the float makes the slightest deviation, am I on the whole striking too soon?
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Would like to see the mouth a be more clearly - but I have no problem with it being a chub - all be it a fat one!
C.
Thanks to everybody who has put their head on the block and offered an opinion. The range of views - chub, roach, hybrid, orfe and ide - cheered me up as, unlike when we normally catch a fish, it isn't immediately clear cut as to what it is, which is a bit unusual and unsettling if truth be told. More opinions please! And does anyone else have a similar experience of fish identification problems which they'd like to share?
Not sure if this helps but this photo, although a bit further away, shows the fish with its mouth open...
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Quick question. What is this fish?
The red fins and silvery body made me think of roach.
However, the big mouth, its cylindrical shape and its dive for the nearest bit of cover when I hooked this fish on Sunday on the river Lea, made me think a young chub.
I thought roach at first, but the more I look at it and think about the fight, (only lasted a few seconds!) the more I see chub. Unlike a roach, there was no jagged rush side-to side in the middle of the pool, rather a determination to escape into the nearest lillies - a nifty bit of side strain was required.
Some juvenile chub don't have the brassy scales associated with more mature chub. They are silvery. And this fish doesn't have the distinctive hump associated with roach. I caught two other roach on Sunday and they were quite different.
One person I know has said it is a roach, but another said chub.
Never had this problem before... What do you think?
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I've just located another thread on the state of roach in British rivers.
It actually stems from this very forum but is over three years old, having been live from February 2005.
I wondered why some of the veterans from this board hadn't taken part in the most recent thread. I wonder if things have changed since 2005? Perhaps some who commented then would like to comment now.
If a week is a long time in politics, is three years a long time in relation to roach stocks...? See:
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Interesting subject tt. I hope you get a few bites.
I'm remarkably under traveled in terms of fishing across the UK so I couldn't really even cast aspersions as to which river could claim the no 1 spot. I do however know a little about the rivers of Norfolk and North suffolk Broads areas, enough to know that the chances of 2lb or larger Roach in the non-tidals are extremely dire. The tidal rivers are a good bit brighter.
I'll start with the one most people know about.
A big thank you to Dant for one of the most comprehensive replies I've read on this site. Really interesting stuff and a great insight into Roach fishing in Norfolk and the north Suffolk broads.
What about other areas of the UK everybody else - is the roach thriving or in decline in Britain's rivers?
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The closed season for rivers is nearing its end and the chance to trot for roach will be with us again soon.
No one likes to give away details of their favourite swims. But rivers stretch for many, many miles.
Which rivers are good for roach and which bad? In terms of both quantity and quality.
I've heard some complain here about the lack of roach in the Kennet. Others praise the Hampshire Avon - not for its quantity of roach but for the fact that you might, just might, hook a 3lber. The Thames gets mixed reviews. In some places poor, in others sublime. Is the Wensum a shadow of its former self? The Great Ouse per chance? Has the river Lea got any stocks of the humble but beautiful roach to speak of? What about the Bristol Avon - as good as its Hampshire namesake if not better in terms of quantity. What about in the midlands and up north?
What do you think? Which river is best and why and which river is suffering and why?
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Simply sublime - most definitely worth a look.
Shotting pattern when trotting a float
in Coarse Fishing
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I recognise that shotting patterns need to be changed to reflect the conditions.
But shirt button style shotting is far removed from bulk shotting. Much is written and said about shotting patterns but these two styles - shirt button and bulk shotting - seem diametrically opposed to each other.
To answer your questions:
As to what I fish for - Chub are always welcomed and probably my number one target, big barbel are great if somewhat scary (ahh that 12lb was truly a fish of a lifetime even if I did think I'd hooked the riverbed at first until the riverbed moved...) and a two lb roach would be rather pleasant though if truth be told one and a half pounds bigger than my personal best...
Bait is generally two white maggots on a size 18 hook - at least until that stops working - talking of which does anyone know of eyed size 18 hooks which have an eye which allow the palomar knot?
I generally fish a swim on the Avon between four and five feet deep (quite deep compared to the river Lea swims I often inhabit), with a fast flow and I use Avon floats.
Occasionally I hit lucky. But only a fool would ignore the advice of his peers...